As a feminist, I feel like I don't belong anywhere on reddit
Submitted June 9, 2020, 8:51 a.m. by chromosomal_nuisanceEdit: This post got way more support than I expected, which gives me mixed feelings of optimism and the state of feminist spaces on the internet. I want to address a few things instead of deleting or amending this post. I don't think r/GenderCritical is a bad sub, or even that the overall content users put in it is entirely bad for radical feminism. Many women became radical feminists when they reached peak trans. It forced them to remove the shutters from their eyes and see how little society actually regards female safety and existence. I'm also more critical of r/PinkpillFeminism than I am not, but if it helps women who are still recovering from abuses and crimes by men then I think it should proceed by all means. I only hope that the derogatory like stances don't remain in these women and that they become more and more analytical and aware instead. I know that r/BlackPillFeminism technically doesn't promote any specific course of action or point of view, but I don't think nihilism is the way to go. If that makes me delusional and in denial then so be it. If helping a single woman or girl find self worth and independence from men is all I ever accomplish I will die happy. Btw, if you haven't yet, please read this: https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/h02ol6/i_represent_sex_offenders_here_are_some_thoughts/
I'm posting this here because I think it's the most appropriate sub. I think it would be too off topic for the XX only feminist subs. TL;DR at the end.
I'm a lesbian and a true radical feminist. I don't think we should be asking if trying to change men is possible; I think we should be asking is it feasible. Whether you think it's biology, socialization, porn, video games, Satan, or cosmic brainwash signals coming from aliens, the fact remains the same that women are not responsible for changing men and that women from a purely resourceful perspective aren't capable of doing so. It would take an immense, astronomical effort on our part to still live alongside men and change them at the same time. Pointing out male violence isn't working. All the "good men" ever do is react with NAMALT and talk about how great they are to women even though they never talk about how shit so many men are. They have yet to put on capes and go around dealing with domestic abusers and pedophiles, much less form organizations and media outlets to tell men "hey, stop the rape already." Besides, most men already know this. They talk about shooting their daughters' boyfriends and don't consciously choose to leave their children alone with men they don't know. They may not think to themselves that "gee so many members of my sex are really violent," but they know. That's why it's not enough to even discuss male violence with men and is a total waste of radical feminists' time and energy.
So I believe we should only be focusing on helping other women. For this reason, I don't feel like I belong in r/GenderCritical. For one thing the trans issue is paramount there. The name of the sub alone shows that. Its users are mostly not radical feminists since female separatism is so "controversial" there. A whole lot of them there want to keep feminism palatable to men, so it's difficult to go in depth about certain women's issues and what their solutions would be. Even when they aren't NAMALTing, they're NAMALTing. It's still a great sub especially for newbies to radical feminism, but it operates a lot more like a news bulletin board than a place where we can get together and discuss solutions. The whole JKR tweet fallout shows that especially because for the past three days now all anyone can post about is why she's right and why TRA's are wrong and, we already know this? On the flip side of that, it puts a smile on my face seeing all the new supporters posting and commenting on those.
And then there's r/PinkpillFeminism. I like that sub. The memes there are hilarious and the female solidarity exudes from it. But seems to me the content really veers in the direction of men and their opinions about women. I don't give a fuck what nasty male said what nasty thing about a woman/women today. Every woman knows this no matter how thick their denial is about it. It really seems to me that for a sub that's main user base supposedly hates men they are focused a lot on what men think and do. From my lesbian perspective, a lot of users there just seem frustrated that men won't love them and want to uncover the reasons why, which there's nothing wrong with that, but I just don't relate. I want to focus on ways women can improve and advance ourselves as much as we can in this fucked up world. I only participate there at all when the more intellectual and analytical stuff comes up because it is almost never brought up on r/GenderCritical. The same goes for calling out the "pickme" behavior that far too many straight and bisexual women exhibit. You can never bring that up on GC without being shouted down at best, having your post removed at worst.
Now there's r/BlackPillFeminism, which is a complete and utter joke. If everything they're saying is true on that sub then I'll just drink and smoke myself to death lol. And no it isn't because I'm "tOo InDeNiAl To AcCePt ScIeNcE!1!!1," it's because, as a lesbian, I would feel no reason to live a long a life. I think we should consider and accept any and all possible causes for the perpetuation of the patriarchy, but if that means "accepting we're doomed" then I'll go find me a place in the woods to die alone in. I can't even bring myself to look another woman in the eyes and love her if she's supposedly biologically programmed to cause her own self eradication, nor could I accept this is true about myself and feel any positive emotion about life at all. So ironically I would be doing what I'm "biologically programmed to do" and submit to the urge to eradicate myself lmao. To be fair, they don't say self eradication specifically in the sub, but they imply it. If women are naturally submissive to men no matter what, even when presented with the high possibility of death and not being brainwashed or coerced whatsoever, then self preservation instinct is a lie.
So, does any other feminist (particularly lesbian) woman feel this way? Should we create our own group for women who aren't 1000000000% convinced that any outcome, cure or cause of patriarchy is destined to happen? One that solely focuses on doing everything we can to help women and girls?
TL;DR: I want to connect with like-minded women on reddit without feeling hopeless and like radical feminism is a waste of time.
Post archive: https://archive.is/4ys5r
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This site isn't exactly feminist friendly, so why do you have to feel like you have a place here?
Most of the users on this site are men (something like 70-75%) and some of the horrendous content they've allowed shows that they only care about men and MRAs.
I think it would be better to have a separate, independent place for actual feminists. One that can't get shut down if men don't like it.
No idea really why I feel like I should have a place here. For all I know a lot of the members of these even radical feminist subs are larping men. Not likely, but doesn't mean I should never suspect it.
I just wanted to get this off my chest and maybe find others who feel the same. The fact that there's any radical feminist effort at all on this site shows that it can be done. I love the idea of having an independent source for us but no one ever actualizes this. There's always just talk, kind of what we're doing right now.
Edit: also I never said I "had" to feel like I have a place here. Just that I see the current efforts as insufficient and was hoping someone can help me make a better attempt.
I can understand the frustration, and I had mixed feelings about even joining this site because of its horrible reputation and the lack of any action. And even the groups that seem ok are either prone to interlopers or trolls.
You're definitely not alone though, and there was some minimal discussion on /r/GenderCritical about having a "backup" or moving elsewhere. Unfortunately, I don't think it went anywhere.
I feel the same. And I understand what you mean when you say you don't feel like you have a place here.
Men's Rights Activists.
I would love to hear about what people are doing to help women, and brainstorm ways we can pitch in. Feminist articles and sources have definitely helped me understand the problems, but I don't really know how I should act in my day to day life in order to directly help women. Maybe donating, volunteering, opening discussions with receptive non-feminists?
Yeah a lot of us relate, we have to make our own spaces! Female separatism will never be popular, itās exhausting enough just to explain the basics to people that itās not about hating anyone but rather women healing and helping each other.
I can confidently say most of my trauma comes from men, and from boys. In the end, as much love as we can give those in our lives who are male, they will never understand and never care to fully.
Every damn day one of my friends complains or is upset / hurt by a male partner. Intelligent women, but shackled to men. Ladies, I want to say, please just dump him and fucking go to therapy.
I dream of a lesbian community, where I am respected, where I am safe, where I am allowed to heal and grow away from a society that has poisoned even the women in my life.
I'm unfortunately hetero but I'd be down for that community so hard
You might like to join r/FeministSeparatists if you haven't already.
Straight woman who's more of a "radfem ally" than a radfem here.
I agree with everything you said.
I think every type of politics nowadays, especially online, is much more centered on complaining about [insert bad guy] , than improving any fucking thing.
There used to be a sub "womenriseup", quite inactive, it doesn't seem to exist anymore?
You can't make active subs if there isn't a "tribe" to criticize, it seems.
Yes! Yes! Yes! Thanks for pointing this out!
I get it. It's the internet. But lots of people who will say stuff like that will also turn around and say that radicalization through online forums is a problem. I think there's some truth to both sentiments, and it all depends on who is engaging and how. Not to digress, but it's very telling that the vast majority of radicalized people who end up committing violent acts are men.
I'm just wanting a community that 1. actually centers women and 2. creates an environment that encourages some type of growth. As much as I dislike r/FemaleDatingStrategy, at least they have that going for them.
Yeah but fds has an opponent, that's the thing. The men they want to manipulate into "proper relationships", where he pays for everything and you "release" punani as little as possible to him.
Yeah we need some type of "women rise up', talking about strategies to improve our lives without necessarily using and abusing [insert bad guy].
But call me a cynic, it'll not gain traction. MGTOW is the fucking proof. People are shortsighted and narcissistic by default. Ugh.
Yep, I'm aware FDS is just a place for lonely women who are in denial about the state of men. However, it seems to me, albeit with very little browsing there, that they at least spend more time trying to come up with ways to be less compliant with men's bullshit. Not saying the sub is useful beyond that.
Oh yeah they do. It's still completely compliant with gender roles, though.
OKay they'll be less compliant for sex (aka PIV ramming) or being any type of fuckdoll, but totally compliant with men being the main source of income to the extent they demand men pay for shit to "prove their value" even if they make their own dollars. Whilst withholding sex as a "ransom".
Because all het sex is only ever supposed to be advantageous or pleasant to men, amiright?
That's my main beef with them. Ultra mega gender roles slightly turned around, Ć la mgtow. Glorified prostitution.
Hey, I am in a very similar position
I don't even use pinkpill or blackpill because I am uncomfortable with the dehumanizing language they use. Same as a lot of gendercrit subreddits (I like the debate sub because it seems more mature and it is the only place i see that is active, I am boreeed, and see a lot of feminist opinions)
I think you are a bit of a separatist? I think I am too a separatist. This does not mean to be some sort of absolutist - go and live in anatartica - sort of thing. For me it is something that naturally happens. I seek spaces with women. I don't get along with men very well, so my friends are all women. At work, I am trying to find a workplace dominated by women. I am not interested in men at all (either romantically or sexually - I am asexual but go figure people around me think I am a lesbian because I am very supportive of women lol). Whenever I interact with men, I always have some walls up because I don't want to give them a chance to be sexist pigs
I think you absolutely SHOULD create your own spaces, but from the time I have spent on reddit, I've learned that it should be invite-only. The community goes to shit when it's publicly visible to everyone... it may exist in a nice little nook for a while, but eventually someone will find it and start causing problems.
I have OCD too, and there's nothing wrong with your comment. To be honest, I kind of laid it on a bit in this post because I really crave the perspectives of other feminists and what their thoughts are on action and direction.
there is r/wgtow but it doesnāt seem to be very active
It seems to me that separatism works better IRL than it does on any social media site.
Iām a straight black woman and I agree with everything youāre saying; Iām actually in the process of making a new subreddit specifically for black women who want to get away from the mainstream black collective and focus on improving and advocating for themselves.
The black *community in general is pretty sexist/misogynistic/homophobic if Iām being quite frank. Not always blatantly, but itās constantly palpable to anyone whoās not a straight masculine male.
They are the main focus and everyone else (especially women) are an afterthought. Many black women are frustrated with the state of things and have begun to distance themselves to focus on women which is honestly the best way I think. Constantly being told or having it insinuated that your issues are not as pressing or that thereās no issue at all except the ones effecting men gets old. And donāt even get me started on the skirting of accountability that a lot of black men utilize to direct attention away from their sexism. Thatās a whole other post.
Do I hate men? The misogynistic ones sure, the few who seem to actually give a fuck about women are all right and the rest itās either mild annoyance with the lack of attention/care or complete indifference. š¤·š½āāļø
Thereās no such thing as having too many female only spaces, God knows we could use more of them. You could definitely start something like that here for lesbians or just like minded women in general. I say go for it. Just my two cents šš¾
EDIT: If there any any black women here lurking and interested in this soon to be space just DM me š¤š¾
That's awesome that you are doing that! I'm extremely annoyed by the lack of attention and prioritization of black women. It really tears me up. Malcolm X was spot on, and what he said has changed basically none to this day.
š¤·š½āāļø no point in stressing, might as well do what we can for ourselves at this point I guess... good luck with your sub if you do decide to make one though šš¾
I'm so happy to have made you feel less alone! That's what I'm getting at in this post and what I'm all about. I want to support women and for women to start including radical feminism in their lives as best as they can. I'm hoping that we can start on the individual level and grow from there somehow.
I also wish these online radfem spaces were more constructive. It's fun to have a space to vent and express views about how shitty men are without facing backlash, but at the end of the day if that's all we do it's not going to make a difference in the lives of real women. Arguing about gender theory and trans people just seems like a useless hill to die on, same with trying to change male behavior. At the end of the day money rules the world, if women get more money, we will have much more power to change society. We should work on helping women become financially independent from men. Even though I am a straight woman who plans on staying married to my husband, I would contribute time and money to support and build female-only communities.
I like following r/FIREyFemmes, community of women who are working on getting financially independent.
Mayhaps you should make a womans separatism sub? I'd join.
Thereās a separatism sub but itās private and not too active
Let's brainstorm. What do you want the focus of your sub to be? What I heard:
What are the main "issues" that you see women facing right now?
What are the best way you feel to deal with these issues (political, social pressure, etc.)?
What issues do you want disallowed on the board?
(side note, unrelated. I will often talk against the use of "pickmes" because I think it goes against your main point: "So I believe we should only be focusing on helping other women." I think it is so common that we name and shame behavior for women: Karen, Becky, pickmeishas, etc. and we don't have that for men. I don't mind describing the behaviors, but it is making it into a caricature that gets to me.)
Yeah, I'm not overly fond of the derogatory way that the women supporting patriarchy are referred to on PPF. I was praising the fact that they at least call that stuff out.
I started to write a really long essay to answer this, but I think I'll just look into creating a sub.
I would love a true radical feminist space, but they donāt seem to be very active.
You have GC all wrong. Abolition of gender is paramount there. And its membership is most certainly heavily radfem. Nobody on that sub gives a damn what men think about feminism because itās not for them. Feminism is for women.
Before I gave up posting there, I got into several arguments with users there about abortion of all the basic, black and white feminist issues... it's not a radical feminist subreddit at all, it just attracts a lot of radical feminists
It's constantly full of women putting male politics first, they don't believe in feminism whatsoever. Apparently feminism means left wing, that was one I saw half a dozen times, heavily upvoted and agreed with. Again, who are these "radical feminists" who've never even read Dworkin? It's a joke. The only thing they care about is gender identity, but they're really toothless about that, too!
I think it got too popular and wasn't moderated heavily enough so it got watered down. (Though it was moderated at least a bit, 'cause I kept getting in trouble with the mods... so god knows what went wrong!)
I was trying to come across as more constructively criticizing the sub than "shitting" on it, but I understand your frustrations. The transcult is making wild accusations about the sub and the overall movement, and us quarreling over how to post and what to post is playing into their desire to see us lose ground on the debate.
Regarding being the change I want to see, the thing is, the sheer volume of posts related to the content I referred to in this post will drown out most of those attempts. For example, today there is a post about the medical industry not taking women seriously. It has nowhere near the amount of participation of more recent trans related topics. Among the J.K. Rowling posts today, the ones about her trans related tweets are more participated than one about her use of pseudonyms in her career due to being a women. There has also been a very good, highly participated post regarding Rowling's tweets where someone took action and wrote to the Washington Post about their dissatisfaction with an article on Rowling. I know we aren't a large and popular movement and we can only dedicate so much time and effort on everything, but how do we grow radical feminist influence by having a narrow focus? Again, I'm not saying that this is what the sub (or the mods) themselves are trying to reflect. I'm more concerned with the participation and its resultant dilution of overall radical feminist, woman centered content. I'm also not saying the participation is entirely a bad thing that is holding us back. A lot of women, myself included, started their journeys into radical feminism by hitting peak trans.
This is in no way a rebuttal to your fair interpretation of my post. I'm actually considering deleting it because I didn't want to come across the wrong way.
We must be talking about two completely different subs. Maybe I misunderstood which one you meant. Because everything youāre saying is completely foreign to me.
No, I mean the one you post in, and the one I stopped posting in at the start of this year because I was so sick of the fake feminism there.
There definitely are some good conversations there! But it's such a small proportion that I didn't think it was worth being part of any more.
I should clarify I was describing more the way that users participate there, rather than the sub itself. As for the members being mostly radical feminists or not, I shouldn't have said they aren't because it's honestly impossible to know. However, based upon what content is posted there most of the time, it seems to suggest that trans issues are the most important topic. It's an extremely important topic and a very huge hindrance to radical feminism because we have to waste our time and effort proving we're the real women, for fuck's sake. So I'm not downplaying the significance of trans related posts. I guess I just want more analysis and a wider range of content that specifically helps women unchain themselves from patriarchy.
Thatās fair. I guess men made themselves most important again, in a twisted sort of way.
It sounds like you have a pretty clear picture of a subreddit you'd like to see. I highly encourage you to create bulletpoints and rules and give starting this subreddit a try. Advertise it on r/gendercritical and r/gender_critical since there is so much overlap. I'd love to see your outline. If I agree with your rules, I'd be happy to be a moderator.
/r/Radical_Feminists
Thanks! I hope we can grow that sub somehow.
If you post for a little while and are interested in being a mod let me know.