Will someone explain male relationships to me? Do men like each other or not?
Submitted Jan. 5, 2021, 3:29 p.m. by BrosMaddI see bromance and I see fight to the death for even the tiniest slights between the same people
I see demonizing "simps" and I see defending a man's right to do whatever he wants to the death.
Men are "not allowed" to be emotional and yet, there is endless hazing if a man is showing emotion. And if they don't do it to his face, they will do it behind his back and respect him less for it too.
Displays of fondness can be so wholesome and tender but also "just jokes" with friends are needlessly brutal and rival the bitchiest teen mean girls.
I may give them shit on here but I would like to understand male friendships better, even if its for my own ends.
I don't understand men's modern relationship with masculinity and friendship.
Like on Reddit, a lot of tall men virtue signal for short men because conceptually they understand that an immutable trait is unfair. Those same tall men are on Tinder like "I'm 6'2 if you care" or, in person, making pity jokes to the girl they want about short men. Or! In a group of men, you see them naturally extend more respect for the taller or "physically superior" male before considering the merit of smaller guys. They do this then come flap their gums on Reddit about how terrible women are for being attracted to whatever
There is also the very loud loneliness and clear desire for more friends. Why is the default to rely on women when there will always be things we are not going to understand? Why can't men cultivate friendships with other men more often?
You're a peculiar creature, if I must say, some very delightful and some abhorrent. But there are some similarities across the board and since some of you will talk here the way you refuse to elsewhere, tell Giga what is this
And for the cucks who are gunna "women do it too", let us not. I'm pro woman but I'm also pro me. For example, I understand the instinct to protect femcels and to shove a dick riding pick-me (not all, just the loons) in front of a bus. Just answer the question as it pertains to you
PS. Behind the scenes, I've been witnessing some of the most outspoken misogynists of the manosphere purr like kittens to women 1 on 1, literally throwing their brocels under the bus and communicating like normal people. What part of the game is this
You have to understand Hegemonic Masculinity to understand men.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemonic_masculinity#:~:text=Hegemonic%20masculinity%20is%20defined%20as,ways%20of%20being%20a%20man.
https://www.globalpolicyjournal.com/blog/27/10/2016/hegemonic-masculinity-how-dominant-man-subjugates-other-men-women-and-society
Yeah I think that’s pretty right on about a lot of it, maybe over-eggs the pudding in a couple of areas. All this talk of hegemony has made me miss Gramsci and philosophy lectures and workshops though 😞
I don’t really know how to answer honestly. Some guys are assholes and I avoid them and some guys I get along with and befriend them.
I don’t think I’m misogynistic (and hope not) and cant give any incel insight.
Men and emotion is complicated. The clips online of guys crying which result in them getting hazed, are getting hazed by assholes. The kind of insecure, toxic douchebag who gravitates around the famed Canuck wanker Stephen Molyneux and his ilk. I have no respect for them, and no guys I’d be friends with would support hazing someone that way. The guys who do those sorts of things are insecure pricks and I hope they just seem more common online than they are irl.
Yes I like some guys, dislike others, don’t care about some others and they don’t care about me, which is fair. Men aren’t a monolith I guess, that’s kind of the best simplest answer I can think of. I imagine that a lack of good male role models is a big part in why some guys are being assholes in those particular ways they are in the world today.
Being a simp isn’t good but it doesn’t deserve hazing and bullying, that makes you a far greater asshole than any simp. Incels, neckbeards, Nazis and so forth are all turds however
Fighting over dumb slights is just toxic assholes being toxic assholes.
As for the famous “men joking in a mean way” most guys are pretty good at knowing what is ok to joke about and what isn’t and in my experience will apologise or at least reel back if they think they’ve touched a nerve
Idk about the tall-small thing honestly I think that just varies. I’ve known taller guys than me who for whatever reason deferred to me a lot and I’ve known guys shorter than me act like the leaders of a group (I’m 5’10 for what its relevant)
I have two brothers so male relationships have always been a part of my life, though I was raised primarily by a single mother. Idk if that will make me different to other guys or if so if it will be by much, but for transparency’s sake there it is
As for the men-men relationships aren’t cultivated more I’d say its to do with emotions again. I think guys are more comfortable expressing themselves emotionally with women than with men, when they do talk with men it still can be meaningful but it isn’t expressed the same way. I think most healthy-minded non-abusive guys will be a lot more comfortable expressing something like anger or frustration around other men than around women since a) it leads to arguments and misunderstandings and b) it can be intimidating to women.
That being said this is mostly anecdotal and personal ofc
well i cant talk on simps and fights to the death but lets see if maby i can help you sort out the rest. i dont respect my male frinds less for being showing emotions, in fact in my guy groupe its rare for a girl to be as close to one of the guys, then any of the other guys. you may have heard this in a more crude from i.e bros before hoes or something. as for the tall virtue signaling i would not know since im a manlet, but i suspect its like when stacys shame men for droling over big brests while still takeing full advatge. and again no clue what you mean with the defult being to rely on women (maby a cultural thing?). regarding your PS it dosent come as a shock i already knew they where POS. in short yeah i like other men (but not in that way lol)
Men have the most loyalty for their bros. Their form of bonding is shit-talking and banter but they would take a bullet for the same bros they make fun of. As far as fighting, testosterone-based honor code and tribalism requires them to be confrontational in order to maintain their pride.
I would take with a grain of salt sentiments from guys on reddit like “I’m so lonely I just wish I had more friends” “I remember a woman complimented me 15 years ago and I would have married her for it” etc. This is indicative of guys who wouldn’t have any hobbies if it weren’t for video games, and niceguy personalitycels. Guys who actually go out and do things and interact often spend tons of their free time with their guy friends, a lot of the hate for simps comes from a “bros before hos” mentality.
It's almost as if men are.....wait for it......individuals. I was tempted to type "inDUHviduals", being an old Dilbert fan, but I resisted the urge....oh wait....
Some men bond more easily with other men, some don't. I've always been a very competitive person, and as such, I tend to subconsciously see other men as competition, rather than allies. Perhaps because of this, my deepest friendships have always been with women. My very best BFF, is a woman that I've known for near 23 years. For some reason, I just feel a bit more comfortable opening up to women, especially when it involves something that could be perceived as a psychological/emotional weakness. Unfortunately, that doesn't always include my own wife, at the moment, but that's a can of worms, best left for another thread.
Don't get me wrong, I have plenty of slightly less deep (hate to use the word "superficial") relationships with other men, but many of those are specific to certain activities, or just drinking buddies, etc. Some are family member, inlaws, etc., that I've gradually become accustomed to.
Cut the shit.
"Not all" is not an argument for women in Reddit so let's skip past this and get to why men trend one way or the other.
Shame on you for wearing the uber left "liberal" dunce cap for clout in ATF
I wasn't trying to be "liberal" in my response, but I don't view this is an area that lends itself to easy generalization.
If you want theoretical reasons, I think it comes down to how men are raised, the sex of the siblings, and the birth order. I personally believe, that whether or not a man has brothers, makes a big difference in how he views other men as an adult. Brothers are competitive, but ultimately, they have each others backs, or so I've been told.
I don't have any brothers, only one older sister. Fortunately, I grew up in a neighborhood with many other boys my age close by, so I was never lonely. In fact, my parents would tell you, that I was never home, I was always at someone else's house.
However, I can see where growing up with a brother, instills a greater sense of camaraderie and common purpose, among men, as does having a good relationship with one's father. Since I didn't grow up with any brothers, and my relationship with my father wasn't all that great, I'm probably less apt, to view men as allies, and more likely to view them as competitors. That was probably heightened, by the fact that I played a lot of sports growing up, both formally and informally, and so that's how I came to view other boys.....as competitors.
A man with many brothers, is more likely to view other men, as being on his "team", even if they give each other shit now and then. As brothers, they probably faced various kinds of adversity together, and that builds bonds. Having built bonds with other boys as a kid, sets the framework for building them as an adult.
Like I said in my other post, I can certainly ally with men, when we have a common goal, and I can certainly get together with men and have a good time, hell, I can be the life of the party, when I make it a priority.
However, due to my "only boy" upbringing, I will probably always view other men as competitors, as the default state. I don't view that as either an advantage or a drawback, it's just how it is. We all play the hand we're dealt.
No, I overreacted. Sorry
And the comment was good insight, thanks
I'm toxic bc I like that shit. I know it's terrible and when I'm being empathetc I'll say just that.
Then when I see Sully with his friends just joking but also driven to annihilate them, I "joke" about have his baby.
Send help
Women can be pretty nasty to each other as well. I’ve noticed that a lot of the femcels say they get more grief from other women, than from men.
Women will decapitate a bitch, clean up, then go to dinner with a smile my friend. I know this bc I too will do this when protecting what's mine. Literally sleep like a baby after the fact. Why do you think I frolick amounts the vast fields of coping male redditors
I know how this shit works. I'm okay with it.
Ok my bad for snapping earlier. I tend to stop reading at "not all men" as a reflex on Reddit. I already know people are individuals I just think this is a useless point to make in here when talking about trends. Look at all these comprehensive replies. There is clearly a culture moids engage in. I suspect guys who don't bother with it are all the happier for it but I still want to understand like.. wtf
I just read the rest of your response. Good stuff
Men like the men they like, and have no use for the rest. I have no real sense of in-group kinship to other men just by virtue of being male. But I also have a few very close basically lifelong male friendships, guys I trust implicitly and can talk about basically anything with.
In my experience the brutality of shit-talk among male friends is proportional to how much they like each other. It is, perversely, a sign of closeness and affection. You know and trust this person and you know where the boundaries are.
I think that's probably the best way to describe it, men haven't really had the need to form kinship based on gender as the ones who can harm them the most are other men, where as women have to have a more inherent kinship with even women they don't know because sometimes it's the only way you don't die or get raped.
Also I'm same to my friends I think that's a lot of friendships regardless of gender, the more I insult you the more I like you, "dumb whore" is like the highest honor unless I'm driving, the you're a dumb whore who needs to learn to fucking drive
That's so wild. Idk sometimes I suspect boundaries get trampled and feelings hurt but bc saying something might garner ridicule, guys will suck it up on the outside. Am I wrong?
I'd say it depends. Sometimes if boundaries are pushed or disrespected, the person or someone from the group will say something about it. Examples include:
"What was that for?"
"Okay that's too far"
"Damn that's not cool"
Followed with a laugh. If the guy doesn't stop pushing, things will get awkward. Usually the offended party will talk with him privately, but if that doesn't happen, they might stop talking altogether. He'll be branded as a jerk in his mind, and that'll be the end of it.
my best bromance buddies are friends who i admire, and enjoy competing with.
thats about it, really. i like my friends to be good at things, but prefer them to be good at things im bad at, and visa versa, so we always have ways to compete with eachother and improve ourselves.
as for the double standard thing about "men cant show emotion and yet men radicle each other for showing emotion" i personally don't believe that the standard of "men cant show emotion" is a standard set by women but rather a standard set by society itself, men included. i think were all aware of how misery loves company and i think the justification is, even if its subconcious, "i cant be open about my emotions how dare he be" its a self perpetuating prophecy.
to the "men more naturally gravitate towards taller men" ive really got nothing to say about that because this is the first time ive heard that theory and it hasnt been necessarily reflected for me in my normal life.
Principles come first. Then true friendships. Then the rest.
If the "bromance" was a true friendship and it developed into a serious fight. It was about principles. There are no regrets nor hard feelings. A man has to stand for something.
No contradiction there. A libertarian can defend a man's right to do whatever he wants and defend it out of principle while criticizing what he considers a poor use of said right.
I personally consider simping for e-thots a stupid thing to do with your time and money. However, a man has the right to do whatever he wants with his time and money.
By that we mean that women will be less attracted to a man that is actually emotional. So a man may be technically allowed to be emotional but the consequence is an increase in the likelyhood of being an incel. It is not an acceptable price to pay.
In the wrong time and place. If a guy is showing emotion in private, to me or any of their friends, he will get support. If a guy is showing emotion in public in a way that will increase his chances of being an incel then for sure I am going to bust his balls. I am doing him a favour.
Nah. The same guy can come talk to me on private and what happens behind closed doors will be different and stay behind closed doors. For his own good.
Read this
Read the link above.
And short men don't mind about what they do. The man is trying to get laid. Of course he will use any advantage he has. Everyone of us is doing the same thing. He just has a different hand.
In every male interaction there is an unspoken rule. If the disagreements get out of hand, then we will end up fighting. The taller or "physically superior" man is extended more respect and merit because we know that once words are no longer enough, he has an advantage. It is primal shit.
By the way, it is not always the taller or outwardly physically superior men the one that gets said benefit. A short, scrawny guy that is known for his martial training or has a history of solving issues with violence and getting out without a scratch will have the same benefit.
Also, if a guy commits the mistake to not realize his place in the pecking order and escalates too much he will wake up with a headache. It is smart to know your place.
Men don't rely on women for friendship. The kind of company that men get out of friends and the kind of company that a man gets out of a relationship are different.
A man can be lonely if he lacks any of those kinds of company. Even if all men have no issues cultivating friendships with men, loneliness would still be a problem as long as those men are incels.
Introverts that leave college/school/church rarely find chances to build meaningful friendships by the time they are smart enough to realize that their introversion is an issue.
When are you seeing these "fights to the death"? Or are you possibly making up weird fibs, as little girls are prone to do. What's wrong babygirl: did the captain of the track team smack a hershey bar out of your hand in 9th grade and you just can't let it go? What's the big fucking deal you dumb sluts?
As with everything in life, like it or not, it comes down to the people we choose to interact with. In my life, specially throughout highschool, I've had friendships with men that were born out of rivalry, jealously, or just likeminded interests (think videogames or sports). These friendships were very superficial and did not last.
I've learned, with age, to filter out those toxic friendships or to replace these bad feelings with positive ones (comradery, honesty, affection). These are the friendships that last.
I think that some men never mature in that aspect, and view their "toxic" male friendships as "the way things are". As a consequence, they might lean on female affection to fill those gaps that they themselves made in their male relationships. I don't think this happens consciously, but as a result of cultural and environment aspects.
I don't believe that men (or at least myself) feel a sense of kinship with other men, in the sense that some women might feel for other women (I don't even know if this is true).
I don't find a problem with those jokes myself, it's all a part of establishing boundaries and respecting others' boundaries. It makes for good memories.
To close off, I think that masculinity is in a crisis recently. Men are either hopelessly behind the social expectation (chauvinistic), or just extremely lost.
As long as you're not completely hideous men usually treat women better than women do.
Men are, in general, only saving their affection for other males. They will inspire, care, look for, guard information for, pretend they do not see for, do a lot more for other males. It's only heterosexual because sexually they will look for women, but emotionally they will be much more closer to themselves. When they try to hook up with a compromised woman, they will not ask sorry for her but for the man with her, that's because men respect men before women, men don't say that other men have gained a promotion because "they have being sleeping to the top", they will never assume that. They don't care if other men swear, smoke, drink or have casual sex, but they will judge if a woman does or doesn't one of those things.