Im not particularly sure how many radical feminists in the 1900’s were advocating for non-binary pronouns but I think this is worth discussion.
Discussion Submitted June 15, 2020, 2:36 p.m. by celestialpi
10 comments recovered from the Pushshift database.
OP tells us in the comments that the writer was a trans(women) inclusive radfem, which is not a thing. That's like saying you can be a pro-prostitution radfem or a pro-fish eating vegan. It goes against the core principals.
It was a pro-trans cisgender radical feminist named Dana Densmore.
source: I know her :)
I just looked her up. She seems like an interesting person
I don't think it was against the core principles, at least not originally. Especially since there was a debate whether transsexuals should be included... Meaning there were people on both sides.
I definitely think that now we don't have a choice. If you are pro trans, you are anti woman.
Back then, based on my understanding, transexuals were trying to get along in life and were working with women to create healthy boundaries and spaces. Apparently there was an overreach in the trans community, where they wanted access to shelters (something women were against from the start). They wanted access to private space pre-op. Of course women said no. ... And now we are two very seperate groups.
No, that's not the history. Trans people were part of the women's movement, but anti-trans people made it their primary focus.
Sex essentialist activists arranged to have Sylvia Rivera beaten for insisting that she speak at the Christopher Street event; they hated her because she used female pronouns and used the women's bathroom. A trans woman co-organized the West Coast Lesbian Conference, but a group of sex essentialist activists issued death threats announced a call to action, and then tried to publicly bash the trans woman on stage, and wound up also bashing the cisgender radical feminists Robin Tyler and Patty Harrison. Then sex essentialist activists tried to close down Olivia for being trans-inclusive, issued death threats, and attempted to murder Standy Stone. "Camp Trans" became a thing because sex essentialist activists told the cisgender lesbian who was running a trans-inclusive outreach and education table that they'd be beaten if they stayed at MichFest. Even though the Leather Dykes volunteered to be bodyguards, they went outside the gates to table, which is where camp trans came from. Then there's the time when MichFest sex essentialists threatened a 15-year-old member of the Lesbian Avengers with a knife at MichFest because she was trans. This problem wasn't that trans people were entitled. The problem was that sex essentialist activists are sex essentialist activists first and foremost.
Thanks for the info! I'm still learning the history 😳 there's a lot... And never covered in school somehow????
I agree. In the past trans people (transsexuals/transvestites) and liberal women were much more allied. The modern transgender movement has created a different sort of atmosphere.
And I also don’t believe all radical feminists need to have the same views on trans people.
It's definitely a different atmosphere, especially in the last 5-10 years.
Well I hope radfems don't all need to have the exact same views in general! If we don't have some variation and discussion, we are no better than the TRAs
There are a lot of so called radical feminists who think reproductive technologies can make men and women equal (Shulamith Firestone is a big one), so there is a lot of feminist fantasizing about what such a society would look like.
I think in a lot of feminist theory, genderless pronouns (which already exist in other languages and haven’t effected the elimination of the patriarchy in the places where those languages are spoken) and genderless clothing (etc) are considered indications of equality, not means of attaining it, which is the main difference between the queer approach and feminist philosophy.
It's completely unsurprising. Why wouldn't you use non-gendered pronouns when referring to people, since their sex/gender doesn't affect their daily life on most things? That's what radfems were trying to fight back then, stereotyping and oppression based on their sex. So of course making everything, including pronouns, more equal would create a more egalitarian atmosphere.
It's the same thing they're trying to fight now, except the oppression is coming from the side of being treated too much the same, instead of different in the wrong way. Singular "they" pronouns are fine, it just depends on what they're referring to.