I've been anxious for the last few months. The political situation in Europe is tensing up.

Discussion Submitted June 16, 2020, 10:21 a.m. by FINNitili

I've been anxious for the last few months. The political situation in Europe is tensing up. Corona virus, new Euro crisis, and the BLM are adding fuel to the fire. Some people have predicted that there will be civil war in Europe within the next 20 years.

I'm suspecting the future conflict will be about Islam. Europe will be split in half in the muslim issue. Many locals feel the muslim migration as a colonising force but some are happy to "help" even the most extreme islamists. We are kind of letting the muslim men lead this operation. Europeans have made very little effort to actually help muslim or ex-muslim women. Also we have absolutely zero ideas how to deal with the extremists.

If things go poorly islamist might use Europe as a battle field, try to convert us, or Europe just gets bored with all the nonsense and ejects all the muslims out. What ever happens there might be new wave of forces in the way that hate women.

So my fear is: Women's rights and safety might suffer big time in the future. This continent will no longer be safe haven for women. First in line are WOC but there's already indication that "indigenous" European women will take a big hit, too.

I'm bit frustrated with radical feminism since this ideology gives very little help or guidance how to deal with politics, finances, ethnic conflict, religions, war, history, imperialism, minorities... Where's the larger picture?

What do you think?

18 comments recovered from the Pushshift database.
dustyboobs90Mod · June 16, 2020, 12:41 p.m. · 1 reply

As always it seems the issue is that extremists on both sides are fighting, and reasonable people are made to pick up the mess made. And nobody wants to make concessions on either side.

In my opinion they should screen for people better and not let islamist extremists enter the country, but at the same time they should work on their own racism (which leads to alienation, and therefore extremism) and xenophobia.

I'm not sure if radfem itself could address alone all of the extremely complicated issues involved -- much of this stems from fallout from colonialism, and that's something the whole world is struggling with.

It's just awful that the fallout of this is going to hit women the hardest. As always.

FINNitilicolonised for 700+ years, 60 years of separatist battle, pasty · June 16, 2020, 2:10 p.m. · 1 reply

extremists on both sides

I'm not seeing my local "neo-Nazis" decapitating islamists, raping anyone en masse, running thru crowd and stabbing people etc. What is the other extreme doing? Sleeping? I don't want the extremists to lead political movement. Reasonable people should be against nonsense.

they should screen for people better

Yes! But nobody seems to be doing this. The US included. We got some ISIS agitators from the US. Guess we should screen Westerners first.

fallout from colonialism

I'm feeling we're heading to new age of colonialism. Extreme islam is spreading to Europe. Islamists aren't removing statues of slavers. They ARE the slavers. And they prefer female slaves.

dustyboobs90Mod · June 16, 2020, 7:27 p.m. · 1 reply

Neo-nazis want zero immigration and all non-westerners out of the country, so...saying that the Islamic extremists are a little bit worse than them is not really much of a point.

FINNitilicolonised for 700+ years, 60 years of separatist battle, pasty · June 17, 2020, 1:32 a.m. · 1 reply

The immigrants inside Europe will suffer if some regions turn into islamist fighting zones. Women lose their rights or never gain them in first place.

There's no credible Neo-nazi movement yet. There's small ones but they seem dumb and not very popular. But if things get heated the Neo-nazis "can prove" their point. There's also evidence in history that non-extremist European governments have started ejecting unwanted people.

Europe is not suffering from right wing problem. The world is suffering from Islamist problem.

dustyboobs90Mod · June 17, 2020, 11:39 a.m. · 1 reply

I don't get how you can say that when right wing groups are indeed starting to become more vocal worldwide. Nationalism is a plague. It leads to fascism. That's just as dangerous, if not more so, than Islamic extremists.

FINNitilicolonised for 700+ years, 60 years of separatist battle, pasty · June 17, 2020, 1:38 p.m. · 1 reply

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing here. How do you define nationalism here? What is the unit of nation?

I'm not talking about Americas where the political situation is heated. I'm only speaking about the EU area. Smaller democratic European nations. When Europe split into smaller nations where's one majority ethincity it didn't increase authoritarianism. We are very liberal and centrist.

Back in the day islamic extremists had slave trade worth comparing to trans-Atlantic slave trade. Islamic extremist committed genocide, ethnic cleansing and slavery operation only five years ago. For me there's very little difference between militant islam or militant imperialism. ISIS = Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. Militant state = wrong type of nationalism. Islamist are also operating in most continents but they aren't strong in Americas.

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Marjka · June 16, 2020, 3:21 p.m. · 1 reply

Civil war in 20 years? Is the situation that bad?

FINNitilicolonised for 700+ years, 60 years of separatist battle, pasty · June 16, 2020, 4:16 p.m. · 1 reply

I don't have military training so I can't be sure. Some people are guessing so.

Muslim and ex-muslim women get very little help from EU countries. There's parallel societies and illegitimate marriages. There's no exit islam plan. There's not enough help against FGM and child marriage.

There's war like action in France right now. It's some type of muslim-2-muslim agression. (Nothing to do with the BLM.)

Turkey was using "refugees" as a hybrid warfare against Greece before Corona. Some of them are not refugees at all. Some are. Turkey is led by dictator and EU was giving him billions not so long ago. Greece and Russia might be preparing for attack from Turkey.

Eastern Europeans are getting defensive, more Christian, anti-migration.

Romania is complaining all their women are going missing.

Euro crisis is tensing up the situation in asylum process. We got lot of fraudulent asylum seekers. They wasted our money.

Half of the rapes in my City are done by MENA men. They aren't 50% of the population. Not even close. MENA men kill quite a lot of girls. Foreign fighters are over representing in mass killings, too. Our government brought back ISIS wives without YPG/SDF(?)/Kurdish permission. They smuggled in TERRORISTS!

But the migration officials are happy to deport some single girls and students because of bureaucracy.

We have hybrid influencers who work for foreign governments but are politically active here. Chinese and Russian hybrid influencing is confirmed. Iranian and Somalian suspected.

Often when foreign governments are sending their pressure groups in some unsuspecting country war follows. Or military coup.

People are getting angry.

I guess EU will split up.

Marjka · June 17, 2020, 8:55 a.m. · 1 reply

I do not live in Europe. So, I am going to have to trust your experience as a woman. Thank you for sharing.

It’s just that at first glance, your concerns seemed a bit alarmist to me, because if I remember correctly, the Muslim population in France is less than 10%? It seems unlikely that a demographic shift can take place in 20 years time.

I know there are a lot of Muslim women in this sub, and in no way do I want to be hostile to my sisters, but I firmly believe Islam is inconsistent with western values. Beyond the examples you gave of polygamy, FGM which are inconsistent with both accepted norms and laws in the west, Islam is also a socio-political movement. It inherently seeks to govern, it seeks to control every aspect of believers lives. This is dangerous as to opposing authorities may not rule the same land. One cannot be lead by two masters at once.

In my opinion, current liberal politics in the west is to blame. The left cannot walk and chew gum at the same time. The left has a hard time balancing its support for minorities/immigrants while also pushing back when say minorities’s values are inconsistent with liberalism. Liberals treat minorities with kiddie gloves. I find it disgusting. I think It’s a form of bigotry, tbh. It’s the soft bigotry of low expectations. We can all agree that western imperialist efforts have devastated the region. but it doesn’t follow we excuse or accept MENA men who engage in vengeful terrorist attacks. There are plenty of people throughout history who have gotten the wrong end of the deal. The Armenians genocide is one example. How many Armenians routinely terrorize Turkey? Belgium committed the absolute worst atrocity in the history of the world, against the Congo Free State, recording more casualties than the holocaust. But how many headlines have you read about Congolese people terrorizing Belgium? Speaking of the holocaust, how many terrorist attacks have Jews committed against Germans to avenge the holocaust?

Maybe war is truly unavoidable for Europe at this point. Have you looked into moving to the US? The situation is not so dire here.

FINNitilicolonised for 700+ years, 60 years of separatist battle, pasty · June 17, 2020, 11:15 a.m.

Thank you. I appreciate your comment. Perhaps I'm spending too much time on Twitter seeing violent videos.

I find political islam to be devastating to all women, the MENA women and the ones in Europe. Current islamism is authoritarian political movement that is not compatible with liberalism, feminism nor democracy. In India muslims and hindus seem to be able to hold democracy but I don't know if co-existence "works" anywhere else. Especially if militant islamists have majority...

I'm also embarrassed to have these European converted ISIS women travelling around outliving their bourgeois conqueror fantasy. Like could you not, please!

I'm feeling this rising tension is like the Cold War. The freedom of speech is suffering a lot as is. Selected few are criticising islam after Charlie Hebdo. Apparently Iran is harassing political activists online. Our "minority leaders" are struggling hard time with our history and with the new rape culture.

If however war would start I'm not fleeing. We're fighting. The last theocracy we had lasted too long.

CourageousCauliflowr · June 16, 2020, 10:09 p.m. · 1 reply

Patriarchal religion is trash.

FINNitilicolonised for 700+ years, 60 years of separatist battle, pasty · June 17, 2020, 12:57 a.m. · 1 reply

YES!

And organised, expansive religions are the worst of all.

CourageousCauliflowr · June 17, 2020, 12:58 p.m.

the jesuits are currently at the top. they took the vatican long ago. a match made in hell, so to speak.

judgemycomposure · June 17, 2020, 9:27 a.m. · 1 reply

Since you've mentioned France I presume you're talking about what happened in Dijon?

This issue is so complex because there has to be a distinction made between 1) racism/xenophobia, 2) islamophobia, 3) the wariness/distrust of cultural "ghettos", and 4) the idea that Western culture is more civilised than any other culture.

One or more of these feelings/thoughts can exist in anyone at the same time, and that's why it's hard for someone who simply wants to talk about the difficulty of integrating immigrants from Islamic countries to be mistaken for a racist or xenophobe. That leaves only the far right who can talk openly about this, but they tend to go way too far and lean more towards racism and won't make a distinction between Muslims and Muslim extremists.

I don't think there'll be civil war in Europe but maybe I haven't been paying attention.

The EU may or may not split up. We've already seen how difficult and painful the Brexit process is, and it hasn't even begun yet. The other countries who might want out will sit back and watch how The UK survives on its own and then maybe make a decision. However, I do think many countries have too many benefits from the EU to consider leaving because of Islam; surely if enough had an issue they would call a vote to tighten immigration laws in many EU countries?

p.s. I must point out I'm white.

FINNitilicolonised for 700+ years, 60 years of separatist battle, pasty · June 17, 2020, 12:56 p.m. · 1 reply

I know it seems bit weird to say Islam could be the reason for somebody to leave the EU or start a war. I don't want to offend anyones family, religion or culture.

But the more I read the stranger the political situation seems to be. West seems naive and ignorant about how militant islamism works. I don't see we are doing favours to MENA women or to our "original people" with the current political system. Seriously. Some of the refuges that came in 2015 were Swedish citizens!! I feel they may have had a real reason to flee but how are we having refugees from the "poster child" of Europe? We also had army staff from Iraq. How are we having foreign military men coming in unchecked? I have a feeling that political Islam was one of the reasons behind the Brexit. I'm not buying the complaint about Polish plumbers or senile voters.

talking about what happened in Dijon?

Yes, that's the latest conflict I noticed on Twitter but not on our local media. France has history of conflict with their muslims. Charlie Hebdo and the other terrorist attacs. Also France seem to be collecting lot of refugees that are turned away elsewhere.

Many European countries are prosecuting the YPG fighters. Who fought AGAINST ISIS. What is this madness? Liberating enslaved Yazidi women is criminal now? One Yazidi woman said she had to leave Germany after she bumped into her enslaver walking freely there. One Kurdi fighter said she was threatened with knife by "ex"-ISIS fighters in Denmark. Our government fetched back the ISIS "wives" who were some-mystery-how oblivious about the genocide.

All the terror attacks, all the attacks on free press, all the free roaming terrorists and military men are leading to freedom of speech disappearing. Being afraid of getting doxed or getting brutalised by some fanatics is harming everybody.

Also democracy in EU is oppression by the bigger countries. Russia just did some rating about the most influential countries in the EU. They said we had no influence! LOL. I don't think our vote matters. We are still paying quite a lot. Planning to pay to ITALY. They are a rich. But not paying to Romania who is suffering from trafficking.

Why is our species this way?

judgemycomposure · June 17, 2020, 2:04 p.m. · 1 reply

Where are you getting this information from? I'd love some links. I guess I only look at the mainstream news sites which would not be talking about this stuff, and I would never look in far right media, which are probably the only ones talking about this.

I have a feeling that political Islam was one of the reasons behind the Brexit. I'm not buying the complaint about Polish plumbers or senile voters.

If you search Youtube for 'Muslim Grooming Gangs', 'Pakistani Grooming Gangs', or 'Britain's grooming gangs' you'll find news reports and documentaries done on this issue in the UK. Obviously there are white, English grooming gangs, but there's a lot of anger because the issue is usually swept under the rug for Muslim grooming gangs, out of the need to prevent unnecessary racial targeting kicking off against innocent Muslims around the country. Unfortunately, young girls from poor families are the collateral damage in this. It's happening in working class communities so they will be the ones having the more 'xenophobic' and anti-muslim views, and who voted leave. (I just want to add I don't think this is the sole reason they voted leave, as it's not happening in every community)

The thing that's surprising for me in Dijon is that, when the Gilets Jaunes manifest the riot police come out in full force, but when gang wars start in Dijon the police are nowhere to be seen in the videos? Where are they? Why are they not getting involved?

You've made some really interesting points, I'm not up to date on this at all!

FINNitilicolonised for 700+ years, 60 years of separatist battle, pasty · June 17, 2020, 3:27 p.m.

I don't follow far-right media because they don't understand the context + they are rude to everyone. The government media is rather useless source. They are also rude to Kurdi. Private, advertisement funded media is better at reporting things objectively. Twitter, blogs and books are important, too.

I highly recommend to follow ex-muslim/Kurdish/Yazidi feminists on twitter. They are very vocal and have deeper understanding of extreme islam and the current affairs about MENA. Here's some: https://www.reddit.com/r/Gc_woc/comments/halwh3/exmuslim_women/fv3qm28?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

Some sources beneath. Ask if something you are interested in is missing. You need to put most of them in translator since most are in Finnish. Also my family and friends are involved in the asylum "industry". I hear lot of things.

Source about the refuge who is Swedish citizen. Source said she scammed but I believe she may have had legit reason to come over. But not 100% sure of course. The communication between countries is not working. There's many more stories but I don't have source for them.

https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/f47ebcbd-a591-4a00-a6f4-7a8b23ab1643

Source for the Iraq military men: https://www.is.fi/kotimaa/art-2000006269849.html

One source about the refugees going to France: https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-11204051

Jailed/prosecuted YPG fighters:

Joanna Palani was jailed after fighting against ISIS. She's also the one who was threatened with knife. I highly recommend to read her book Freedom Fighter, too! There's so much criticism on EU/West/Denmark in there. But here's about the jail: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/19/danish-woman-who-fought-against-isis-faces-jail-sentence

Johan Cosar got fined (luckily only fines) for the same thing: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47319581

There's more prosecuted fighters but I can't remember them all right now.

Yazidi woman who fled Germany: https://www.dw.com/en/yazidi-woman-encounters-islamic-state-captor-in-germany/a-45114593

ISIS women who "returned". They were fetched back unlike the source says: https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/a3ebe3d0-bfde-4d02-a30d-ff5353da15d7