34 comments recovered from the Pushshift database.
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jupiterssunday · June 27, 2020, 4:20 a.m. · 1 reply
Never known anyone who is gender conforming beyond a few women wearing makeup. It would be weird to see someone actually be gender conforming tbh. Like a caricature.
worried19 · June 27, 2020, 3:44 p.m. · 1 reply
You don't know women who have long hair and wear women's clothes?
If GNC people exist, then sure gender conforming people exist. No one could be GNC if there were no social gender stereotypes to follow.
jupiterssunday · June 27, 2020, 6:14 p.m. · 1 reply
I’m a woman with long hair and woman’s clothes. Is that really all it takes to be gnc? I wear pants or cut my hair?
worried19 · June 27, 2020, 6:17 p.m. · 1 reply
So then you conform to the basics of femininity.
We all agree gender is bullshit, but it exists as a set of social expectations. A person is not GNC if they act out the social expectations for their sex.
jupiterssunday · June 27, 2020, 6:19 p.m. · 1 reply
So hunting makes me gnc but my dresses make me conforming.
What if I combine them? Do I become nonbinary?
worried19 · June 27, 2020, 6:27 p.m. · 1 reply
I'm talking about visuals only.
Look at these two women. Woman One. Woman Two. It's nonsensical to say that both are GNC. We all know just by looking which one is GNC according to social expectations.
WritesEssays4FunPronouns are me/my/mine. · June 27, 2020, 6:52 a.m. · 1 reply
In my experience (I'm gen z, if that provides more context), there is so very much diversity amongst young women. Some conform in a way, I suppose; usually through dress, but I actually haven't met any young women who wish to be housewives or adhere to behavioral stereotypes.
Our society is currently highly encouraging of women to not be housewives, not settle down, work, etc, and it's evident in the behavior of the youth. I'm the only woman my age that I know who even has becoming a mother as one of their goals.
luckygumshoe · June 27, 2020, 9:58 a.m. · 2 replies
I'm the only woman my age that I know who even has becoming a mother as one of their goals.
May I ask where you live? Literally 0 women I know are childfree. Every single woman I know, and every single girl I knew back in the day, wanted children one day.
WritesEssays4FunPronouns are me/my/mine. · June 27, 2020, 10:41 a.m.
Oh wow. I live in NY, which I'm sure affects this lol
worried19 · June 27, 2020, 3:49 p.m.
Do you think being raised in such a rigid environment affected your self conception?
I know for me it did. I rejected everything female because I never saw any other ways for female people to be.
SqueakyBall · June 27, 2020, 8:14 a.m. · 1 reply
No disrespect to you, OP, but to me "masculine woman" and "feminine man" are the kinds of weird concepts I expect to hear from trans types. Most people in the world aren't gender stereotypes. Yeah, hang out around a gym and you'll find some muscle men. Hang out in Barney's (rip) NYC and you'll find some fancy women. But apart from stereotypical places? Nah.
I know plenty of women and men, gay and straight, and I've never met anyone who falls into the above categories. That's a very rigid way of thinking. It says more about the person doing the categorizing than about the people being categorized.
luckygumshoe · June 27, 2020, 9:58 a.m. · 2 replies
I get your point, but OP did not ask a weird question tbh and GC + QT constantly categorize people into "masculine" and "feminine".
SqueakyBall · June 27, 2020, 10:03 a.m. · 1 reply
People constantly ask this question but it's weird. It may be a generational issue or it may be a niche issue for the kinds of people who hang out at this sub/have dysphoria and dysmorphia. In the wider world, I guarantee you people don't obsess over these bizarre stereotypes.
luckygumshoe · June 27, 2020, 10:28 a.m.
Nah, I agree with you on that. But the same people who do not obsess over this, still embody those stereotypes nonetheless lol.
Adept-Wave · June 27, 2020, 11:37 a.m. · 1 reply
GC people do not use those words because we don’t believe in general. Or if we use them it’s about biological reality — Breasts are feminine, makeup is not. Testicles are masculine, sports are not.
luckygumshoe · June 28, 2020, 3:58 a.m.
Lol no. Every GC person I've ever met sees make-up as feminine, and definitely does no use it like that lol. Biological reality only comes up when trans people are at play with y'all.
luckygumshoe · June 27, 2020, 9:53 a.m. · 1 reply
Most masculine woman? Me before I transitioned. Most feminine man? My friend before he transitioned.
Tons of feminine women are gonna pretend that they are not "gender conforming" even though they embody every single gender conforming characteristic. People always act like "effeminate" means "bimbo", but that really is not true. It is like people who claim that they only wear "a little make-up" and that that does not really "count" when they know damn well they almost never leave the house without it, and it really is not that "little" lol.
snackysnackeeesnacki · June 27, 2020, 10:25 a.m. · 1 reply
I don’t wear any makeup at all, I don’t shave, and only wear jeans and t shirts (or, now that there’s a pandemic, sweats and t shirts). Am I feminine?
luckygumshoe · June 27, 2020, 10:30 a.m. · 4 replies
Depends on your behavior. Are those jeans and sweats and t-shirts womens or mens?
Outside of myself before I transitioned, I knew 0 women who did not shave lol. I knew women who did not always shave, but no one who had never shaved at all. Same with make-up; I met some women who only wore lipstick and light foundation/blush/whatever they call it, but no one outside of myself & a few religious girls who wore 0 make-up. (This is not to say that being GNC had anything to do with my transition; like there are plenty of trans men who grew up wearing make-up.)
snackysnackeeesnacki · June 27, 2020, 10:40 a.m.
Jeans definitely women’s because I’m 5’1”, but almost every single t shirt is stolen from my husband.
I also don’t wear a bra. But that’s because I’m too cheap to buy a nursing bra and my 10 month old is a boob monster and wants access at all times. Actually the most feminine thing about me is breastfeeding/being a mom (which are certainly feminine things, but it’s not really a “behavior” in the same way as makeup/dress/hobbies). I love children and babies. We are also going to try for another baby soon so I’m tracking my cycles closely and I love feeling really in touch with my body and how it changes throughout the month. Like my husband smells different to me when I’m ovulating.
So I do feel really connected to my “womanhood” but it’s all internal and pretty physical. I like running, reading, movies, dogs, politics. All sort of gender neutral interests.
Adept-Wave · June 27, 2020, 11:35 a.m.
Shaving and makeup are not a sign of your gender. Historically, there have been cultured where men wore tons of makeup and women wore none (Europe in the last 500 years), and where men removed all their body hair (Ancient Egypt)
AnaniujithaGatekeeping-Critical Trans Woman · June 27, 2020, 12:27 p.m.
I find women's jeans fit better, but almost always contain latex or spandex/lycra/elastane, which give me rashes.
I finish men's jeans fit badly, if at all, but don't always contain latex or spandex/lycra/elastane.
worried19 · June 27, 2020, 3:04 p.m.
I only wear men's clothes. I've never worn makeup. And I have a short men's haircut.
I refuse to perform any aspect of femininity. I agree it's rare for women to do that. There's a difference between not following gender stereotypes and being aggressively gender nonconforming. I wish I'd had some butch or GNC role models growing up. I feel like my adolescence would have been a lot easier.
worried19 · June 27, 2020, 3 p.m.
I'm the most masculine woman I've ever met. I haven't come across many. There just aren't a lot of them where I was born and raised. I saw a butch woman once when I was 10, and I've seen a handful of others since moving to a small city three years ago.
I'm not sure about men. I never met guys who were openly gay in high school or college. I'm sure there were some, but nobody I would call noticeably effeminate. Since moving, I have met and briefly interacted with a handful of men I would have perceived as gay, although I would never assume because appearances can be deceiving. I wouldn't say they were extremely feminine, though.
Adept-Wave · June 29, 2020, 11:15 a.m.
Because I am critical of the concept of gender, I don’t use masculine and feminine to describe personality traits, style, mannerisms, or hobbies or interests. If we use those words at all (why do we need a word for “female-like and male-like?) they should be used to describe biology. And I wouldn’t describe a woman as masculine because inherently any trait she has (hairy arms? Very small breasts?) is actually feminine. Because she’s female.
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Never known anyone who is gender conforming beyond a few women wearing makeup. It would be weird to see someone actually be gender conforming tbh. Like a caricature.
You don't know women who have long hair and wear women's clothes?
If GNC people exist, then sure gender conforming people exist. No one could be GNC if there were no social gender stereotypes to follow.
I’m a woman with long hair and woman’s clothes. Is that really all it takes to be gnc? I wear pants or cut my hair?
So then you conform to the basics of femininity.
We all agree gender is bullshit, but it exists as a set of social expectations. A person is not GNC if they act out the social expectations for their sex.
So hunting makes me gnc but my dresses make me conforming.
What if I combine them? Do I become nonbinary?
I'm talking about visuals only.
Look at these two women. Woman One. Woman Two. It's nonsensical to say that both are GNC. We all know just by looking which one is GNC according to social expectations.
In my experience (I'm gen z, if that provides more context), there is so very much diversity amongst young women. Some conform in a way, I suppose; usually through dress, but I actually haven't met any young women who wish to be housewives or adhere to behavioral stereotypes.
Our society is currently highly encouraging of women to not be housewives, not settle down, work, etc, and it's evident in the behavior of the youth. I'm the only woman my age that I know who even has becoming a mother as one of their goals.
May I ask where you live? Literally 0 women I know are childfree. Every single woman I know, and every single girl I knew back in the day, wanted children one day.
Oh wow. I live in NY, which I'm sure affects this lol
Do you think being raised in such a rigid environment affected your self conception?
I know for me it did. I rejected everything female because I never saw any other ways for female people to be.
No disrespect to you, OP, but to me "masculine woman" and "feminine man" are the kinds of weird concepts I expect to hear from trans types. Most people in the world aren't gender stereotypes. Yeah, hang out around a gym and you'll find some muscle men. Hang out in Barney's (rip) NYC and you'll find some fancy women. But apart from stereotypical places? Nah.
I know plenty of women and men, gay and straight, and I've never met anyone who falls into the above categories. That's a very rigid way of thinking. It says more about the person doing the categorizing than about the people being categorized.
I get your point, but OP did not ask a weird question tbh and GC + QT constantly categorize people into "masculine" and "feminine".
People constantly ask this question but it's weird. It may be a generational issue or it may be a niche issue for the kinds of people who hang out at this sub/have dysphoria and dysmorphia. In the wider world, I guarantee you people don't obsess over these bizarre stereotypes.
Nah, I agree with you on that. But the same people who do not obsess over this, still embody those stereotypes nonetheless lol.
GC people do not use those words because we don’t believe in general. Or if we use them it’s about biological reality — Breasts are feminine, makeup is not. Testicles are masculine, sports are not.
Lol no. Every GC person I've ever met sees make-up as feminine, and definitely does no use it like that lol. Biological reality only comes up when trans people are at play with y'all.
Most masculine woman? Me before I transitioned. Most feminine man? My friend before he transitioned.
Tons of feminine women are gonna pretend that they are not "gender conforming" even though they embody every single gender conforming characteristic. People always act like "effeminate" means "bimbo", but that really is not true. It is like people who claim that they only wear "a little make-up" and that that does not really "count" when they know damn well they almost never leave the house without it, and it really is not that "little" lol.
I don’t wear any makeup at all, I don’t shave, and only wear jeans and t shirts (or, now that there’s a pandemic, sweats and t shirts). Am I feminine?
Depends on your behavior. Are those jeans and sweats and t-shirts womens or mens?
Outside of myself before I transitioned, I knew 0 women who did not shave lol. I knew women who did not always shave, but no one who had never shaved at all. Same with make-up; I met some women who only wore lipstick and light foundation/blush/whatever they call it, but no one outside of myself & a few religious girls who wore 0 make-up. (This is not to say that being GNC had anything to do with my transition; like there are plenty of trans men who grew up wearing make-up.)
Jeans definitely women’s because I’m 5’1”, but almost every single t shirt is stolen from my husband.
I also don’t wear a bra. But that’s because I’m too cheap to buy a nursing bra and my 10 month old is a boob monster and wants access at all times. Actually the most feminine thing about me is breastfeeding/being a mom (which are certainly feminine things, but it’s not really a “behavior” in the same way as makeup/dress/hobbies). I love children and babies. We are also going to try for another baby soon so I’m tracking my cycles closely and I love feeling really in touch with my body and how it changes throughout the month. Like my husband smells different to me when I’m ovulating.
So I do feel really connected to my “womanhood” but it’s all internal and pretty physical. I like running, reading, movies, dogs, politics. All sort of gender neutral interests.
Shaving and makeup are not a sign of your gender. Historically, there have been cultured where men wore tons of makeup and women wore none (Europe in the last 500 years), and where men removed all their body hair (Ancient Egypt)
I find women's jeans fit better, but almost always contain latex or spandex/lycra/elastane, which give me rashes.
I finish men's jeans fit badly, if at all, but don't always contain latex or spandex/lycra/elastane.
I only wear men's clothes. I've never worn makeup. And I have a short men's haircut.
I refuse to perform any aspect of femininity. I agree it's rare for women to do that. There's a difference between not following gender stereotypes and being aggressively gender nonconforming. I wish I'd had some butch or GNC role models growing up. I feel like my adolescence would have been a lot easier.
I'm the most masculine woman I've ever met. I haven't come across many. There just aren't a lot of them where I was born and raised. I saw a butch woman once when I was 10, and I've seen a handful of others since moving to a small city three years ago.
I'm not sure about men. I never met guys who were openly gay in high school or college. I'm sure there were some, but nobody I would call noticeably effeminate. Since moving, I have met and briefly interacted with a handful of men I would have perceived as gay, although I would never assume because appearances can be deceiving. I wouldn't say they were extremely feminine, though.
Because I am critical of the concept of gender, I don’t use masculine and feminine to describe personality traits, style, mannerisms, or hobbies or interests. If we use those words at all (why do we need a word for “female-like and male-like?) they should be used to describe biology. And I wouldn’t describe a woman as masculine because inherently any trait she has (hairy arms? Very small breasts?) is actually feminine. Because she’s female.