Weekly Open Thread: Chat, advice, personal stories, questions, concerns, etc
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105 comments recovered from the Pushshift database.
I'm kinda upset because one of my friends told me I'm a little rude sometimes.
But I'm not, and I always make a point of being polite and helpful and kind. I'm just very direct, but I'm no more rude than he or our other friends who were there are.
The thing is that he saw me order food and then said that "you were so cute talking to the cashier! Why don't you talk to us like that? Cause honestly you're kinda rude, no offense" and that pissed me off, cause it sounds to me that the real issue is that I'm not cute enough while talking to my male friends, and not my politeness.
Lol one time I was having a disciplinary meeting with a male employee and he interrupted me to say "you need to learn to be nicer to me."
I was honestly just stunned at the time, but I did eventually fire him. Not for being an ass to me, just for the poor performance that led to that meeting in the first place.
Wow.
"You need to learn not to interrupt your boss."
Just wow it's exactly my response too. you need to learn. .wow wow wow. Or what, exactly? It sounds so threatening.
What did you say?
This is why I can't understand how men don't see their own privilege, the worst of women would be more likely to say "the reason you have x problem with me is because you're so cruel". Women almost never speak from a place of assumed superiority, I've never met a man who doesn't.
Once, one of my best friends (and first female crush...) got lectured by one of our favorite teachers on being too...I forget the word exactly, but he used it over and over again. Confrontational? Abrasive? Combative, that was it. The typical 'never going to get people to listen to you if you're so aggressive'. Implied her brilliance would be wasted if she didn't change her attitude. Said she should let people be wrong sometimes without 'attacking' them.
I was the only other person in the room (he was sort of reprimanding us both) and I remember how much that devastated her. She was always right, was the thing, pointing out inequalities, sloppiness, sheer wrong-ness...in my experience teachers do not handle it well when those sorts of things are pointed out, but she never backed down. If she were a man, she would have been called 'thorough' instead of 'nit-picking' and 'determined' instead of 'combative' and on and on and on. We both knew it and it sucked.
Sounds like you've isolated the problem with your friends exactly. It sucks, I know.
Because you're not performing woman hood correctly. Listen to this dude, he'll make sure you get it right /s
Honesty is rudeness man, this is my life struggle. Of course a superficial interaction with a cashier wouldn't contain any harsh truths. It's hard to squeeze anything with any depth between "hello" and "I have a coupon." Many people who think I'm rude when I'm really just being honest, and I don't mean using unnecessary honesty for cruelty, also have no problem telling me everything I'm doing wrong but somehow that's ok. People want to be lied to. I'm told it's an American thing.
no, it's a world wide thing, I'm sure. After all, what is etiquette but a system of lies? But they are lies that salve people's feelings, allow them to save face. And you lie with your behaviour: maybe i want to put my elbows on the table but i physically lie and don't do it, for etiquette.
My youngest told me the other day she thinks when she grows up she may want a wife, but definitely not a husband. She said she's pretty sure she "only likes girls".
I am so scared for her, the way things are going right now. She's already been told she "might actually be a boy" at school because of her butch haircut and the way she dresses. She's never said she wants to be a boy.
I feel like I'm going to spend the next ten years just trying to keep her off social media and away from people who'd try to convince her she's trans.
https://www.transgendertrend.com/schools-resources/
These are geared at classrooms, but you could use these in your parenting as well.
Thank you very much!
She is so lucky to have a mom who loves her just the way she is! My daughter's lesbian friends do not have supportive parents.
I'm sorry your daughter's friends have to go through that. That's terrible.
This is my fear for my goddaughter who's got the bonus of being autistic.
I’ve been thinking of how to act around my eleven year old brother. We’re fairly close: he’ll hug me and say I’m the best sister, say that he feels happy when I tell him about my day, even offer to rub my back, etc. He’s an affectionate kid, and reacts well to me getting involved in his life. We’ve had serious talks about our father's infidelity, pornography, his studies, and other aspects of life. He seems to value my opinion and actually enjoy it when I lecture him.
As expected of his age, he’s being exposed to gender and sexuality more than ever. My father and grandfather make it a point to emphasize that he’s a man, that he isn’t being properly maculinized due to the fact that he lives among women. My mother is afraid that his body image issues are a sign that he will grow up to be effeminate or homosexual. His friends are usual little shits with no respect, keep talking about porn stars, etc. (He’s already worried about his penis being small. He’s just a kid!) My father, upon being confronted by my brother about having nudes of women he knew, told him that all men view pornography and that it is natural—despite thinking that pornography should be illegal... My brother was lead to believe women just don’t understand the concept of pornography and told me “it’s just somethings boys know.” Anyway, I told him that masturbation and sexual curiosity are healthy, but that pornography is abusive and degrading to women. He appeared genuinely upset by that and it felt like he understood the point really well.
That said, I don’t know if I should be talking about my views around him. I don't want to “indoctrinate” him, but I also feel like my parents are obviously inadequate, and I should fill in that guiding role.
He sounds like a good kid! And exposing him to alternate views isn't even remotely indoctrination. Just knowing that other opinions exit can be a game changer.
Recently my school sent out a diversity/inclusion survey. It was supposed to take ten minutes to fill out, but it took me at least twenty since I was busy correcting their many assumptions that female is a gender, and other similar things. After, it was like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders.
Wait you got a 3 day ban on Reddit?
I was following that conversation for a bit. I wouldn't be surprised that they reported you (because to them anything said against prostitution is said against them). Sad to say that give her a couple of months and she'll have a different opinion. Glad to have you back!
Well, at least now we know 13 links in less than 24 hours will do it. Got to let the truth out bit by bit, could imagine if you were advertising a product there'd be a reason for it, otherwise it's a pretty stupid rule.
What does TIM mean, please?
Trans identified male
I'm applying for graduate school and one application had questions about gender identity, "sex assigned at birth," sexual orientation, and then gender expression. The question read:
The options to respond were a range including "mostly feminine/masculine, mostly feminine/masculine, equally feminine and masculine" et al.
All of these questions are optional, but it still seems ridiculous to me that how masculine or feminine I look and behave is any way relevant, even for statistical research purposes. How many women you admit is important, not how many feminine individuals of either sex and whatever the hell gender identity.
What the heck of a program were you applying for?
I'm applying for a perfectly normal science program at a respectable US university. These questions were part of the general grad application. I've never seen anything like it before...
That makes me so sad.
One day I'll post the gender surveys they push on Oregon high schoolers... It's maddening.
I am so glad I graduated long before we had to talk about gender in school as anything but a synonym for sex.
Very sad. What field is this in?
This was part of the general graduate application rather than for my specific program (which has nothing whatsoever to do with gender).
I think that particular wording is suggested by the the state of NY's government.
Oh, really? This wasn't in NY, but another very liberal state.
I wonder where this wording was first recommended then?
Write questons on it like, what is feminine? What do you associate with this? What do you mean by masculine? And yes it is disturbing, because since science is stereotypically associated with men, are they going to start demanding female science students "present" as men? . I've already heard of kid being pressured to "pick a label" and butch girls being almost forced to transition, because "then everyone will feel more comfortable" if she wrecks her body and health.
I have applied to US graduate schools in liberal states but never encountered such thing before. It is so disturbing.
I've also applied to other programs in the past and never seen anything like it. The other schools I'm applying to now didn't have it, so at least it's not widespread (yet).
Well, my midwestern state school had people like Twinkle the TRA speaking for rights of Pacific Asians so it seems to be spreading fast throughout the States.
"Which gender stereotypes do you conform to? Are you very good at it?"
What the flying fuck.
Being the keeper of secrets is really getting to me. Internalised homophobia has a father saying dumb, bigoted shit in front of his kid. Kid is a bisexual teenage boy. Unbeknownst to the son, the father has had fully consensual long term sexual relationships with men, but often throws around terms like f*t and p**r in a tone of palpable disgust. I am sworn to silence by both of them regarding their sexual preferences. Kid is totally comfortable with himself in other contexts - his closet only exists to hide from his father.
I've tried the only subtle things I can think of and gotten nowhere. I wish that the next time the father said some stupid homophobic bullshit in front of the kid I could just scream, "You're both bi! Move forward!" Of course, it is not my place to out anyone. It's really sad to watch though. It doesn't feel right to be holding the bomb that could blow it all away. I'm not qualified for this.
If you're ever down to making a choice between them, choose the kid. Kids need protections, adults being shitty don't. You don't have to out the kid but you can out the dad who kind of made it your place when he started being a hypocritical ass in a way that's harmful to his own kid.
don't See why you cannot out the fag. You are watching harm being done. What about that line, about GoOd people doing nothing?
God. Being gay or bi doesn't excuse homophobia. Ever. Subtlety isn't going to work.
Let that man know the next time he messes with his kid his kid is going to learn exactly what a hypocrite he has for a father.
That's really helpful. Every comment has been helpful. If it was to come down to a choice in the moment - the father has chosen his position long ago and is comfortable there. I have no reason to believe he will ever want to come out in any way beyond the few who already happen to know. Not to his family or anyone else. But that's down to pressures and expectations that simply don't exist right now in the son's world. It's absolutely not fair to subject the kid to antiquated attitudes and clearly this is a roadblock in what is otherwise a good relationship between them. It's a dire threat to make but I believe he would take it seriously. I had tried, "But what if your own son wanted to bring a boyfriend home one day?" That was met with, "Don't be ridiculous, I know he likes girls." It can only go so far before I feel less like the keeper of secrets and more like the facilitator of unnecessary torment.
Yes, exactly. Appealing to empathy does not work with abusers. Threatening their ego/to expose them can. You can let him know that he isn't all powerful and that if he simply can't behave, you simply don't care about protecting him. And of course of course of course only do what you feel safe doing. You never seemed to indicate that outing him would put you or his son in actual danger.
In a CMV comparing incels and feminists:
Reply:
I really hope that's a troll, but I won't be surprised if he's not.
I agree that these are VERY different reasons to be livid. But having spent time reading incel posts and posts here I am surprised that the levels of anger and victim mentality are really similar. Anything that preaches hatred and division is incredibly destructive for the preachers as well as everyone else.
I don't think most inches preach anything and I also don't think a lot of them hate anything more than themselves. As for me, wanting liberation for women doesn't mean I hate men. I'm nuts about the one I'm going to see in a few hours.
This is a very common thought process among men
It was so fucking weird I couldn't believe I was reading it.
Is the pain of a total lack of body contact somehow worse as a man? How about a woman who is raped and goes on to have a phobia of all physical contact? Wouldn't a person who has had sexual contact so disturbing they now have both a phobia for, and the normal human need for physical contact, have a much more traumatic experience?
After further exchange, he appears to be an incel himself. Being sexed trumps logic or empathy for incels.
Has any of you become more paranoid about TIMs taking women’s place in media? They never reveal that they are male publicly anymore. I can almost always tell that they are not women. I feel like we’re getting more TIMs these days, especially if the story calls for a group of women.
I decided to ask people close to me how they feel about this trans stuff, and everyone was basically GC. My sisters are more so than I am. I couldn't remember Jenner's female name so I asked my sister what did she think about the Jenner person who transitioned. The first thing out of her mouth was- "Oh, you mean Bruce". I mentioned cis-gender and she hadn't heard the term. When I explained it, the first thing she said was- "Oh, you mean a woman" (with some anger and sarcasm). She thinks this whole stuff is ridiculous and just outright rejects it. My other sister is pissed bc she has a special needs child in elementary school and she's terrified of something happening in the bathroom. She told me this is the most important thing she's worried about as a voter, and I had to convince her to not vote Republican over this.
So have hope ladies, a lot of people feel this way and just don't publicly talk about it. I think QT is only prevalent amongst activists and their organization. I think as they continue to push this mainstream, there will be a lot of backlash. Not trying to minimize the problem, just giving a little bit of my experience last week.
I am very happy for you! Unfortunately I do not have the same experience. I am surrounded by TRAs. The only two people who agree with me on the insanity of this are my male partner and one female friend, but neither of them have the strong interest in this issue that I have. I can tell they get sick of hearing about it, and that’s why I decided to finally start posting here after years of lurking. I needed an outlet!
But your experience gives me hope I can find more people to talk to IRL besides just two!
Got into an argument with my mother again on the whole trans thing.
She knows I do my homework on issues, that I'm more radical on politics than she is, and I think she is confused.
I am avoiding her friend with the trans daughter.
I can't deal with it.
We should have cut them out of our lives after she backhanded my mother.
Perfect example of a middle class brat who has had everything handed to them.
We argued about her again, because she is getting housing in a senior citizens place.
In this state, if you are disabled, you can get senior housing, something I am wildly opposed to.
I'm talking about mentally unstable folks living near vulnerable seniors, not people in wheelchairs or mildly mentally impaired.
I told my mom I was worried she would attack someone there if they goddess forbid, mis-gendered her, or some crap.
Que another argument.
Wait. A transwoman backhanded your mother? Did you report it to the police? That’s fucked up.
Trans man.
Over two hundred pounds, and strong, and my mother was in her 70s at the time, and weights about 120 lbs.
Yes, the police were contacted, but my mother declined to press charges.
She didn't want to lose the friendship and we're in a tight knit religious group (not Abhrambic)
Frankly, charges should have been pressed, this person has been violent before, (attacking a cop, pulling a fucking sword on a cop) and if she had been a poor black person, she'd be dead or at least in jail.
Managed to avoid jail, thanks to daddy and mommies money.
Has had two jobs, in her 25 years of life, spends money on cos play, cycles through different fandoms, and drops money on them.
Class and white privilege are a hellva drug.
Pulling a fucking sword...
That's like peak weeaboo.
HAHAHHA!
Total weeaboo.
Anima, Tumblr, cos play etc.
But it's not a fetish!
Wait, a transman is a biological female. Is that what you mean?
Jumping in because I remember DimDroog speaking about this before and it was awful enough that it stuck in my memory: yes, the person in question is biologically female.
Yes, she is a female.
Cluster B, bi polar, utterly spoiled.
Massachusetts upheld the self ID law for "public places."
I'm convinced that if we had been allowed to discuss the issue, people would have voted differently. There was NO discussion allowed from a feminist angle at all in the media. It was only "you're a bigot if you don't vote Yes."
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/qz.com/1190996/scientific-research-shows-gender-is-not-just-a-social-construct/amp/
Are there sinister people with bad intentions involved in the transgender movement? Why do they do what they do?
Money
Yes indeed there area, and their aim is to end feminism. Some serum to be simply jealous of women, because like many men they think women's lives are easy: we can always sell sex, how lucky! Hence, why do many TIMS have transition goals of doing cam work or getting rich men.
But i think others, it's more complicated. They need women to be feminine, because that's what they think w should be, but it's more... It seems tied up with ideas of manhood... Like serving the princess, as well as the princess serving him.
And feminine has vanished really. Those half naked girls aren't feminine.... It's too aggressive. Girls don't bother to do mysterious, tantalising..all that. I used to be a very very feminine woman and you wouldn't believe how men responded. One guy, at a party, pulled up a chair and said, just keep talking. I want to gaze at you. .They would yearn at me. Seriously.
And now look at them all, either doing sexy.... Or doing feminine. They hate feminists because they've taken all the feminine away. I really think this is how they feel. They've set out to destroy the movement that killed what they love. That's what the AGP Anne Lawrence calls AGP: becoming, not women, but "what we love" Feminine.
Does anyone know of where to listen and/or download to any speeches or audiobooks of second wave feminist stuff?
I sometimes struggle to read for long periods of time and audio is easier to process. But there sadly doesn’t seem to be many feminist audiobooks out there! And I’ve only seen a handful of clips of Dworkin speeches floating around YouTube. Anything else you know of to rec /link would be greatly appreciated!
There's a bunch of random stuff on youtube. You have to search but there are interviews out there for sure.
Yeah, I was hoping there was a feminist channel collecting them or something.
I think babyradfem or something like that has some clips I’ve seen but also a lot of just joke videos.
Dunno about audiobooks... what about your local library?
Here's this site, though...
http://radfem.org/
Maybe you guys can help me find this quote or book excerpt
I remember seeing it on my tumblr dash a lot (I follow a number of radfems so it’s something we might all relate or like at least). The quote is something about how women secretly always feel they are on the brink of going crazy/insane or having a breakdown. It was something definitely written by an author of some sort so not some tumblr text post only
I tried googling and tumblr search with a few choice words but I can’t find it at all. It’s driving me crazy cause I rmbr seeing it and be amazed by how it articulated itself
love and support for all women who are reading this
❤️♀️
Right back at you! ❤️
Is it ok to post in the sub links to a petition? It's about a problem in the city of Pisa in Italy. A man accused (and found guilty but absolved) of stalking and violence towards his former partner for 15 years was elected as councillor responsible for the department of culture of Pisa. Despite numerous protests and a petition signed by more than 40k people, there was no answer from the mayor (who is from a far-right party). I know it's about a relatively smaller situation in a maybe unknown Italian city, so it might not interest all the sub, so I wanted to ask first.
This may be a strange question, but does anyone have any advice on how to find hobbies/activities to participate in that aren’t TRA magnets?
As you can see from my username, I am very interested in and involved in fandom. All of my hobbies and interests involve fandom. Unfortunately, fandom is a TRA minefield. Every single one of my fandom friends is drowning in trans kool-aid or IDs as trans themselves. (Of course, everyone here knows it’s because this shit is a social contagion, but I digress.)
I have given up on trying to find like-minded fandom friends, so I deal with the TRAs and stay silent about these issues when they come up (which is constantly). But I want to find hobbies and friends where this shit simply WON’T come up in every conversation.
I am too scared at this point to out myself as a radfem IRL so I don’t want to join radfem specific groups. So I guess what I’m asking is, does anyone recommend any hobbies or activities that don’t seem to attract TIFs and TIMs like flies to shit the way fandom does?
Should I take up welding? Lol
I wish I could help. It’s all over everything I’m interested in, too.
That sucks. What are your hobbies, so I know what not to bother trying lol?
I’m backing away from the literary scene. I still show up for local concerts but I keep to myself. Have definitely seen a lot glitterbeards and such on that scene. Which would be so fine if it was like the 80s and 90s when everybody genderbent but we didn’t have to play make believe about it. I’m interested in environmental and food justice types of things but just about any org. would pretty much require me to check my reality at the door on this issue. Heck even my local bike shop is a designated Pronoun Police station.
Art is the worst for tras!
Oh god believe me, I know. All of the main fandom hobbies (drawing, writing, and sewing for cosplay) are drowning in TRAs. I hate it.
I have been told that crafting groups based on activities historically associated with women are good - knitting/crocheting/sewing/weaving type things are recommended pretty commonly; these groups seem to be composed of primarily older, no-nonsense women. Don't know if you have any interest in knitting/etc though. Personally I find it quite relaxing, especially while doing something else simultaneously.
I am not super into those specific suggestions but your description of “historically associated with women” made me think of cooking... I doubt that has any particular appeal to TRAs and it’s also something useful so maybe I’ll try that lol! Thanks!
Gardening, they are too concerned about their appearance to get involved
Lol they really seem to have no interest in anything that they can’t involve their appearance in, do they?
Me too! I learned oxy-acetylene and arc welding, so much fun.
What are better words to use for following words as a radical feminist who believes that gender is a social construct?
I'm realizing that every time I say these words I get a little crazy. I think that it is important to not use gender to talk about "transgender" politics as it is legitimizing the concept of gender and the bad ideology.
What are better words to use?
The only things I could think of are pretty long-winded, which doesn't make for quick conversation.
But man I can't keep using gender language!!
gender = lifestyle choices
gender non-conforming = self aware lifestyle choices that aren't dependent on oppressive patriarchal socialization
transgender = a person who is believes in patriarchal gender and that they are the opposite of that associated with their sex
masculine = ?? some word not associate with the male.
feminine = ?? some word not associated with the word female
I like to use 'socially imposed stereotypes' in place of gender and 'socially imposed stereotypes associated with females/males' for feminine/masculine. Like you said, it's unfortunately a bit wordy.
I’m a straight man who needs feminism because living as a single father in Texas from another country I want my daughter to have the best life possible.
Hej på dig. Välkommen.
I start my very first "professional" job on Monday and I want to cut my hair super short tomorrow. This is a business casual environment (at least for the orientation). I don't think short hair on women is unprofessional at all, but I know most people think short hair on women is "extreme" and I want to make a good impression.
Does anyone here have any experience with having super short hair, like a pixie cut or even a buzz cut, and working in a professional environment as a woman?
Here's some examples of what I want (btw I am a black woman): https://www.instagram.com/p/BnpDzGZnC17/?hl=en, https://www.instagram.com/p/BbOWVRmF81X/, https://www.instagram.com/p/BlZcjqFhuPT/?hl=en (not blonde like hers, just around the same length)
What does your hair look like right now? I'm a black woman who usually wears my hair close cut and it hasn't been a problem with my jobs. If you're worried about it give yourself a couple of weeks on the job before cutting it. That way you can get an idea of the vibe at the company.
It's about armpit length and it's natural.
I think you'll be fine, especially since they were ok with your natural hair before.
They've actually never seen my natural hair lol. I had a phone interview with them and then I got hired. They've never seen me in person. But one of the women who was corresponding with me over email was a black woman with large natural hair, so I'm sure the opposite is fine.
Yeah it seems like you'll be good