The law of consent a huge success in Sweden

GOOD NEWS Submitted June 19, 2020, 1:18 a.m. by MountainGandalf

CW: Sexual assault and rape

A couple of years ago the law around rape changed in Sweden, to switch the focus from asking the victim "did you say no?" to ask the rapist "did you get a yes?" and BEHOLD, 75% more men are convicted just over the past two years.

They also added a new term, "careless rape", which means a rapist can't get away because the woman was drunk, or that she's in such a situation were giving consent is hard (byebye BDSM defense) , or she's afraid. Basically, if a man rapes her when she's past out, or in her sleep, or any of those situations I'm sure you know, he can't get away anymore. Unfortunately, this one has been a bit harder to get convictions of, since it's really hard to prove the intention of being careless, and therefore it's only being applied in really violent cases. Which is something to work on, obviously, with educating judges about sexualt assault more. Hoping Sweden will get there.

There's also been a change in people's attitude towards rape, with victims not blaming themselves as much as before, and people focusing on the consent part. It's a huge statement from the judiciary that men now are responsible to get consent, and not demanding women act, or do, what they deem "reasonable" for a rape victim.

So, just wanted to share that this law works (alot of men were obviously sceptical and didn't get it) and it's put forward by awesome feminists in Sweden who worked HARD to get it past. Sweden saw alot of obvious cases where men walked free for stupid small reasons like "the door wasn't locked, she could've walked away" or "she's too drunk to remember correctly" and shit like that, and none of that matters anymore with the new law of consent.

I could share the article, but it's in Swedish so I guess you just gotta trust me x) I've basically roughly translated the highlights from it. If you know Swedish, just Google "ETC: vi hade rätt - samtyckeslagen fungerar" if you're interested ^^

PS, isn't it weird I'm still afraid to name men as rapists and women as the victims, when I know this is GC and therefore know that you all know that's the reality? Get what I mean? I'm so used to gender neutral speak as to not "offend" anyone (by talking about women). Anyway.

76 comments recovered from the Pushshift database.
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urban_wallflower · June 19, 2020, 1:21 a.m. · 2 replies

In Sweden Islam unfortunately trumps women's rights. Many men have been given nothing more than a slap on the wrist because they come from countries that apparently don't know what rape is. It's appalling.

MountainGandalf · June 19, 2020, 1:27 a.m. · 1 reply

Um. Do you have sources for that? I have no idea what you're talking about.

urban_wallflower · June 19, 2020, 1:34 a.m. · 2 replies

I can't find the news story as it won't come up when I search, but there was a story in the news of a man raping a woman and him being let off the hook because of his culture 'not teaching him what rape was'.

magic-spaghetti · June 19, 2020, 1:42 a.m.

You may want to check your source an ensure its validity. If it's targeting Islam instead of the man, it's probably a biased (right wing and/or racist) source and is thus invalid

MountainGandalf · June 19, 2020, 1:46 a.m. · 1 reply

Yeah, I agree with the other comment. Check the source. Sweden is a ridiculously racist country and one of the most non-religious on the planet, to let a man off the hook because of "culture" (which is EUs brown parties new fancy word for "race") wouldn't happen.

urban_wallflower · June 19, 2020, 1:48 a.m.

Many of the immigrants coming over are not families or vulnerable people fleeing war, they are single male economic migrants. Single males with disgustingly misogynistic beliefs rooted in Islam.

magic-spaghetti · June 19, 2020, 1:42 a.m. · 1 reply

Sweden isn't an Islamic country, so no it doesn't.

urban_wallflower · June 19, 2020, 1:47 a.m. · 2 replies

Sweden is full of Islamic male refugees and 8 out 10 stranger rapes in Sweden are perpetuated by Islamic men. It's funny when someone mentions Islam around the left it gets priority over women's rights.

magic-spaghetti · June 19, 2020, 1:47 a.m. · 1 reply

Source?

urban_wallflower · June 19, 2020, 1:50 a.m. · 2 replies

I'm not allowed to link things to this subreddit, links are banned. Look for it yourself. You have the internet.

magic-spaghetti · June 19, 2020, 1:54 a.m. · 2 replies

I just googled it, and found.... Nothing. Suprise suprise. In fact, the only articles I did see is that rates of Islamophobia are quite high, and that the highest percentage of rapists in Sweden are older white men, especially those in the Christian and Catholic community. If you're going to come on here spouting lies and Islamophobic statements, at least put yourself in a position to back them up.

Continue reading
womenopausalHuffleterf · June 19, 2020, 2:12 a.m. · 1 reply

Links are not banned on this subreddit.

Continue reading
MountainGandalf · June 19, 2020, 1:57 a.m. · 2 replies

"Around the left", like you can be a feminist and a rightwinger at the same time. Men oppress women in all countries on this planet. Every religion hates women. Your statement is straight from the brown party in Sweden. You need to read up on feminist theory, it's impossible to be feminist without an anti-racist lense. Hatred and oppression of black and brown men have always been excused with "protecting white women". I'm not a fan of religion at all, again, Sweden have one of the largest atheist populations on Earth. That doesn't mean you can use a racist agenda and blame brown men for violence against women in Sweden, definitely not when the brown party wants to take away every sex-based right women have. Those numbers you state there are simply not true. That's not being "crazy leftist and letting Islam ahead of women's rights", it's just fact.

magic-spaghetti · June 19, 2020, 2:03 a.m.

PREACH MY DUDE

urban_wallflower · June 19, 2020, 2:08 a.m.

Let's throw white women under the bus because that's always ok, isn't it?

NotTheCoolMum · June 19, 2020, 2:01 a.m. · 2 replies

That is brilliant. Any campaigns running in other countries to adopt this?

MountainGandalf · June 19, 2020, 2:39 a.m. · 2 replies

The article stated that other countries are looking to Sweden to adapt the same law, but not which ones or when. So I don't know. But one can hope! If Sweden can show receipts that it works, other countries wouldn't have a reason not to adapt it. It would especially give feminist movements something to shove in MRA faces!

womenopausalHuffleterf · June 19, 2020, 2:41 a.m. · 1 reply

We absolutely need to frame this somehow. Nordic Model is already taken. (Thank you Nords for your contributions to feminism! 💗)

TiredInAnAngryWay · June 19, 2020, 6:36 a.m.

Danish polticians are slow as fuck, but there has been changing attittudes the last few years. A new definition of rape almost came through, but now a minister needs more time to ponder the difference between "giving consent" and "doing something voluntarily", and how this will be interpreted legally.

S00rabh · June 19, 2020, 4:57 p.m.

I hope it's not adopted because first part sounds like she says he says. Why would a word of women be considered over a man.

What if man said no and women forced it.

Nami_Used_Bubble · June 19, 2020, 3:24 a.m.

I know Amnesty Denmark were campaining for this, but I don't know if it went through. I remember the huge backlash against it tho.

womenopausalHuffleterf · June 19, 2020, 2:15 a.m.

I will be removing off-topic comments on this thread. Let's keep it to the definition and prosecution of rape, please.

(comment deleted or removed) · 1 reply 
womenopausalHuffleterf · June 19, 2020, 4:56 p.m.

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womenopausalHuffleterf · June 19, 2020, 2:25 a.m. · 3 replies

Meanwhile, prosecutions and convictions in the UK have dropped by like a third in a year and rape victims get their phones confiscated for no reason.

We need to learn from Sweden in this instance. Tell me, are other Nordic countries adopting this approach?

MountainGandalf · June 19, 2020, 3:30 a.m. · 1 reply

After a quick Google search, no, they don't. SVT radio (swedens public service) reported that Amnesty recently criticized Norway, Denmark and Finland for their lacking laws when it comes to rape. Maybe they'll get inspired by the Swedish law of convent now when it's been around for a few years tho.

EvermoreWithYou · June 22, 2020, 6:03 p.m.

I just looked at Finland's sexual crime laws, and they seem pretty standard to me. So what exactly is the problem?

MountainGandalf · June 19, 2020, 3:31 a.m.

And those sources for UK are horrendous. I'm so sorry to read that. We have a long way still to get women social equality.

TomAndMigg · June 19, 2020, 11:05 a.m. · 4 replies

Denmark has been criticised by the UN for its rape laws and prosecutions.

Denmark is still on "you need violence/threat of violence" for it to be rape (it's a linguistic thing, as far as I can tell. It's literally "taking-violently") and there is a big debate about having a consent based law. The politicians promised to change it but then decided against for whatever reason.

critical-darling9 · June 19, 2020, 12:06 p.m. · 1 reply

Just chiming in to say that the Swedish word for rape also translates to "taking violently". So it's no excuse for the Danes!

TomAndMigg · June 19, 2020, 12:39 p.m.

Yeah, it's weak sauce justification indeed

Nami_Used_Bubble · June 19, 2020, 12:40 p.m. · 1 reply

I'm not Danish but lived here for five years, and I can't believe the excuses around this topic. "It might say that, but it doesn't really happen this way here" "Women don't need anymore help in Denmark, if you change the law now it will just lead to false accusations" "something something refugees". My OG country is worse, but it's still baffling that even women were against changing the definition of rape.

TomAndMigg · June 19, 2020, 3:07 p.m.

Agreed! I'm the same, not Danish but lived here for 12 years. Totally batshit justifications for maintaining rape culture. They feel like sexism is over so case closed.

radical__daphne · June 19, 2020, 1:01 p.m.

Just being a man alone with a woman in a sexual situation is a latent threat to the woman. We exist with a history of violence against us by men everytime we say no or assert even the most basic boundaries.

whinecube · June 19, 2020, 5:01 p.m. · 1 reply

In more modern jurisdictions in the US, the way the word "force" is now interpreted is that the act of sexual intercourse is itself force. So any statute that uses the word "force" should automatically be a simple consent / no consent law. That is to say, you either consented to the force of intercourse or you didn't.

To me this is 100% correct. If someone were to pin you down, and forcefully hold you there against your will for several minutes, that in of itself is a criminal act. The RAPE is when the penis enters the vagina (uses the strictest definition of rape, and not other sexual assaults).

TomAndMigg · June 20, 2020, 3:11 a.m.

Oh that's an elegant solution.

arianrhodUShannak · June 19, 2020, 4:34 a.m. · 1 reply

I think this is an incredibly important battle for hearts and minds if you will, the tipping point between all men are entitled to women's time space and indeed their bodies upto and until the woman successfully completes a maneuver of some kind to erect a barrier and shut him down. Men then feel entitled to judge the quality of resistance in the moment, men feel entitled to judge the quality of resistance in retrospect. They give themselves a pass for anything they did before they decided the "no" was emphatic enough, and then genuinely think that they're a good guy because they DID stop [quick someone get a gold star].

A demand of active informed positive consent places a very different standard of expected behaviour

Gardrothard · June 20, 2020, 3:19 a.m.

Men then feel entitled to judge the quality of resistance in the moment, men feel entitled to judge the quality of resistance in retrospect.

Yes, how convenient when so many women in such situations freeze or simply detach.

xthesnarf4everx · June 19, 2020, 7:36 a.m.

It's funny how simple phrasing is incredibly important for how people interpret situations. Studies have shown that witnesses to car accidents often describe the scene differently depending on how the officer asks them what happened. Using words like crash, tap, bump (the car crashed versus the car bumped another car) produces different answers.

This is an incredibly simple change, but can do so much. What were you wearing, were you flirting already puts some guilt on the victim. But did she say yes puts pressure on the perpetrator. Amazing.

ThatThickness · June 19, 2020, 7:59 a.m.

Here’s a link to a BBC article: Sweden approves new law recognizing sex without consent as rape.

We need similar reforms in Canada.

Pinguina2010 · June 19, 2020, 8:31 a.m. · 2 replies

Wow. That some good news! Meanwhile in México a rape victim is forced to state a declaration several times and having a medical examination. No doubts why so many women in my country doesn't want to face police. I've heard some of them even raped some victims. One time I try to declarate a robbery (some douchebag stoled my cellphone while I was in a bus). The process of declaring was nightmare. I desist. And it was a fucking cellphone. Makes my blood boil. So many injustice in this world. But anyway... I'm happy at least sweden women are having a more logical legal process. I also like the effort of abolition of prostitution your country have. (Correct me if I'm wrong) hehe.

lenalinwood · June 19, 2020, 11:58 a.m. · 1 reply

Despite this, the radical feminist movement seems to be gaining strength in your country. I love seeing all the # feminismoradical posts on Instagram. Better times are ahead.

Pinguina2010 · June 19, 2020, 12:02 p.m.

Yeah... we are not over yet with the get back to kitchen 'jokes', feminicidios, machismo in general and now we have also to deal with the nonsense queer ideology that came from the us. We mexican women are fed up. As we will said: Estamos hasta la chingada de tantas pendejadas.

MountainGandalf · June 19, 2020, 12:15 p.m. · 1 reply

Fuck that's horrible. Stay strong, sister.

And yes, Swedish feminists are looking to France to adopt their abolition model. I hope we do.

Pinguina2010 · June 19, 2020, 12:40 p.m.

Thanks. I hope that too! If more and more places adopt it will be great because countries like mine tend to adopt legal systems from the us, canada and europe. So we latinoamericans are counting in you and all european sisters to try to implement it. We will do also our part and keep fighting too! I'm so so glad I found sites like this. That's how I'm able to share some information otherwhise are very difficult to reach. Thanks for the sharing!

ThrillcheesierRuining-your-fun feminist · June 19, 2020, 8:56 a.m.

This is amazing. We all know women are pressured into sex they don't want in all sorts of situations.

midnight_sparrow · June 19, 2020, 9:46 a.m. · 2 replies

The more I read about Sweden, the more I want to go to there...

hab-bibMinister of TERFery · June 19, 2020, 11:05 a.m.

Same, I'm visiting as soon as this lockdown ends!

MuchoMarsupialTERF · June 19, 2020, 1:14 p.m.

Oh, the sad thing is that there was plenty of opposition to this law when it came, at least judging from social media and online forums. Misogyny is unfortunately deeply rooted everywhere although there are degrees.

sjefsiljuuus · June 19, 2020, 9:52 a.m.

I want Norway to get the same law of consent as Sweden has. The police here almost never charge someone for rape here, which saddens me. Women wont report it to the police either because they dont do anything about it. Most rapes happenes between people the victim trusts, few or no vitnesses. The statistic in Norway where they show how many got raped from a period from 2010 - 2019 doesnt show the real numbers, because there are A LOT of victims that never reported it. I am one of the hidden numbers for the years 2013, 2014, 2016 and 2018.

I have concluded with that I am going to report my rapist. The case will end up closed due to few evidence - I was 15 - 16 years old, didnt know what rape was due to bad education at school. Therefore no rapekit. No one saw him rape me, it always happened behind closed doors. The only evidence I have is papers from mental hospitals where I did EMDR, and some chatlogs between me and him.

However, when I report him, and even if they close the case, it gets registred on him FOREVER, and I know deep in my heart the police doesnt close the case because they dont believe me. I spoke to a police officier two weeks ago, and I could see in her eyes that she believed me. I want to report him, so that it gets registred on him, and if someone else reports him, they can see that I reported him as well. Eventually, he will get thrown in jail. I think someone has to be the first to report him, and in this case - the first person is me. I know he has done it to others. They told me that when they figured out what he did to me.

smohyee · June 19, 2020, 10 a.m. · 3 replies

Can we get some devils advocacy in this discussion?

All comments are praising this as unequivocally positive. What I'm wondering is how this challenges the core tenets of most justice systems:

  • the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused
  • the accused is considered innocent until proven guilty

Yes, this change in law would obviously lead to more charges and convictions... But would it be for the right reasons? If you required everyone accused of any other crime to provide proof of the negative (that they didn't do it), conviction rates for that crime would go up to.

And so would false arrests.

Takseen · June 19, 2020, 10:13 a.m. · 2 replies

I don't know about that. If someone punches me in the street and I want them charged with assault, I don't have to prove that I told him not to punch me, or tried to run away when he came swinging at me, and that if I froze up and didn't defend myself, I'm ok with getting punched.

smohyee · June 19, 2020, 10:44 a.m. · 1 reply

I don't know about that. If someone punches me in the street and I want them charged with assault, I don't have to prove that I told him not to punch me, or tried to run away when he came swinging at me, and that if I froze up and didn't defend myself, I'm ok with getting punched.

Yeah that's all true. You seem to have missed the one thing you would have to prove, though: that you were actually punched.

That is the analogue to a rape accusation.

Takseen · June 19, 2020, 12:42 p.m.

From the original post, its talking about situations where no one is questioning that sexual intercourse happened, only whether it was consensual or not. "

to switch the focus from asking the victim "did you say no?" to ask the rapist "did you get a yes?"

In the distant past there have been cases where arguments were made that sex was consensual because the victim didn't fight back hard enough.

robbiebot · June 19, 2020, 12:38 p.m.

That's true, and for that reason you're encouraged to not punch someone, even if they give you permission. Are you suggesting, in the same vein, that we encourage people not to have sex? Proof that you've had sex is not proof that you've been raped.

I just read the law text because I'm curious, and oaktsam våldtäkt means the suspect hasn't verified consent. I don't understand how they would be convicted if they just said they verified consent beforehand. As before, in the absence of technical evidence, it's word against word. I'm gonna look and see if I can find some convictions where the suspect claims consent was verified, it would be interesting to see how the court made their decision.

MountainGandalf · June 19, 2020, 12:06 p.m. · 1 reply

I get what you're saying, but that isn't the point of the law. It's basically just a clarification, and an assurance that the accusted can't say "she didn't say no". Sweden saw alot of those cases. The accuser still needs to prove it actually happened. Trust me, women are certainly not trusted for their words. At all.

False convictions isn't a thing. Sweden have a ridiculously safe judiciary system, and a lot of feminists in Sweden talk about women being lawless again and again for what on the outside looks like obvious crimes. They fail to understand the safely we actually have.That's just another thing tho.

We can't fight rape within the judiciary system. We do that by education, from an early age, about consent. We also need to talk about violent porn and how boys as young as 8 are watching it. We could put every accused man behind bars, without any evidence, and that wouldn't change the reality for women. She would still be a victim, no matter the outcome in court.

But yeah, again, the law of consent have had impact on people's attitudes which is what we want. The judiciary send signals for what's allowed or not, so just saying "didn't get a no" just won't cut it anymore. Sorry if repeating this but, Sweden have seen an increase in convictions for that one reason in cases, where she could otherwise prove it. Before he still walked free for saying she didn't say no.

To prove a rape is still the hardest shit here, as everywhere. Swedens judiciary system is a hard core believer in "rather one free, than one innocent behind bars".

Edit: typo.

deividyx · June 19, 2020, 1:03 p.m.

I really had doubts about this law (in some regards still have), but the last paragraph about "rather one free, than one innocent behind bars" makes it a lot better. No ones verbal testimony should have any significant meaning, ether from victim or offender, male or female. As long as it's puts actual rapist with certainty to jail I'm up for it to be more widely used.

MuchoMarsupialTERF · June 19, 2020, 1:17 p.m.

There is no way to completely eliminate the risk of false accusations. That's true of every crime. That's why crimes are investigated. Everybody should be free and allowed to file a report of a crime. That accusation should then be investigated regardless of whether the crime is rape or any other crime.

There's also this erroneous idea that it's easy to get falsely convicted of rape. The reality is actually the exact opposite. It's very difficult to get somebody convicted of rape even when guilty. That still remains true even after this law.

rainybirchtree · June 19, 2020, 12:15 p.m.

that’s it, i’m moving to sweden.

MuchoMarsupialTERF · June 19, 2020, 1:11 p.m.

I absolutely believe this law is a step in the right direction. Absence of a no is not a yes.

lajaviquienmas · June 19, 2020, 2:06 p.m.

we need to spread this, I would love to read the law to share with others

wadafawk · June 19, 2020, 3:21 p.m. · 1 reply

This has got to be a joke ... Jesus , run far far away from psychotic women .

flapyourwingsloves banning · June 19, 2020, 7:04 p.m.

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sashy311 · June 19, 2020, 4:06 p.m.

DID SHE SAY YES. ITS SO SIMPLE!!!! Thank you for posting this!!!

NoggerLover8841 · June 19, 2020, 9:19 p.m.

This law only applies to white men. If a muzzie nafir rapes a white woman, it is impossible for it to not be consensual