Those of you with immigrant parents, how do they view gender ideology?

Submitted June 28, 2020, 5:16 p.m. by IceColdLover

In Bulgaria, where my parents are from, gender ideology is nearly unheard of. To my parents, a man is a person with a penis, a woman is a person with a vagina, it is impossible to change one's sex, gender and sex are used interchangeably, and trans people are gender-nonconforming men and women. The end. They are surprised that there are people who view it differently than this. It is impossible to even discuss the dimensions of this debate with them because they can't wrap their head around the other side to even debate it, it's as if it's some joke to them or something from a movie.

21 comments recovered from the Pushshift database.
AutoModeratorfemininity is ritualized submission · June 28, 2020, 5:16 p.m.

Welcome to Reddit's most active feminist community! This is a women-centered, radical feminist subreddit to discuss gender from a critical, feminist perspective. If you’re new to gender critical feminism, please familiarize yourself with our FAQ and some of these resources.

Please follow the rules and consider if your submission is appropriate for this sub or if it should be posted to a sister subreddit. See our dictionary of common terms if you’re unfamiliar with lingo.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

PersnickeyPants · June 28, 2020, 5:23 p.m.

Surprisingly, even though my father immigrated to the United States from India, he doesn't hold to those traditions. He is aware of how sexist they are. He was a bit of a black sheep. And married my mother, a white women from Wisconsin, who was also a black sheep and interested in women's rights. I'm aware that this is rare, however. Perhaps the fact that it's a mixed marriage, and both my parents decided to break a bit from their familes and forge their own path. He paid the price for a while and was ostracized for a while for not keeping to the traditions and putting his extended family first.

ssatsugene · June 28, 2020, 5:49 p.m. · 3 replies

I'm from an African country. The word for man/woman is inseparable from the biological meaning. Gender and sex are one and the same. There is no conception of a feminine/masculine "soul" or brain. People are just male or female. Anything beyond that is simply their individual peculiarities.

I love when they argue the "bioessentialist" definition of man/woman is a western/white supremacist conception. The sex binary is even starker in non-anglo/western countries like mine. My parents just think TiMs/TiFs are homosexuals who cross dress. The concept of gendered brains is completely alien to them.

IceColdLover · June 28, 2020, 5:52 p.m.

Of course. Suggesting otherwise is white Western revision, no matter how much they want us to believe GC ideology is an invention of white feminism.

1nvar · June 28, 2020, 9:27 p.m.

Seriously. Patriarchy isn't a European export. It arose in every society when men realized they could physically force women to do any tedious or low-status work they didn't want to do.

peregrine_throw · June 29, 2020, 3:58 a.m. · 1 reply

I'm from an African country. The word for man/woman is inseparable from the biological meaning. Gender and sex are one and the same.

It's also the same in western countries, which is why marriage has been/was/still is off-limits to same sex partners. It's a modern corruption of words by genderists that sex and gender suddenly refer to different things, and that man/woman are terms unrelated to biology.

ssatsugene · June 29, 2020, 5:58 a.m. · 1 reply

Yep. To undo this movement we really have no other option but to reclaim those words. I seriously feel like we're living in some kind of new Soviet era.

peregrine_throw · June 29, 2020, 6:29 a.m.

The institutional creep is sinister crazy, no? T's like the rumored scientology tentacles in many LEO agencies.

questcequunefemme · June 28, 2020, 5:51 p.m.

For me, back home in Romania gender ideology is mostly unheard of. We never even talk about "gender", only sex. There is a huge pushback in society against LGBT+ group (which are often funded by the US/ the West, therefore seen as foreign invasion). Unfortunately women's rights are also unheard of, and because most men are alcoholics, it's a very miserable situation to be in. My parents claim proudly they are "open minded", but for any westerner they would probably fit quite well in the far right.

cardinal_song · June 28, 2020, 6:45 p.m. · 2 replies

My parents are middle eastern, my dad immigrated here from Syria and my mom from Lebanon back in the late 80s. They are much more open minded now than they were when I was a kid, but they reject the concept that gender is a social construct/gender and sex are separate/etc. They're accepting of some things but not all, and especially not of gender transitioning.

For example, my parents are now accepting of lesbians but they also think TIFs are lesbians, and pretty much any women with short hair or who likes cars or math or any typical "guy" things must be a lesbian, because in their minds: women = feminine, so less-feminine women = lesbian women. They respect same sex relationships, but not any transgender ideaology. Theres no changing your gender. They view sex reassignment surgery as disgusting and an affront to god, etc.

The funny thing is, most liberal feminists who preach about loving immigrants and refugees would HATE them irl. That isn't to say immigrants can't be liberal (bc duh, untrue generalization), but the majority of us from other cultures (especially highly religious cultures!) are a lot less accepting of and less familiar with western ideaology. So whenever I see a libfem say that "no human is illegal / everyone is welcome here" and in the same breath say that "if you don't accept TWAW, drop dead" I have to laugh. My parents are not at all right leaning but they're definitely never going to use they/them pronouns or respect a man with a penis in a women's restroom.

IceColdLover · June 28, 2020, 6:50 p.m. · 1 reply

When TRAs state how all these cultures were so much more 'progressive' than the West on gender ideology until colonialism, they actually rarely ever focus on the Middle East. It is usually on cultures like Native Americans, Polynesians, Australian Aborigines, South Asians, etc. They would not be surprised by your parents' views. Your parents' views are similar to mine.

If you do not mind me asking, what religion are your parents?

cardinal_song · June 28, 2020, 11:28 p.m.

That makes a lot of sense when you put it like that. It's so telling how they cherry pick the "model" aspects of certain minority groups to support and talk over others.

I don't mind it at all. My parents are both orthodox, but my mom is Eastern Orthodox and my dad is Oriental Orthodox. Fun times haha.

neptunecoffee · June 29, 2020, 3:41 a.m.

My parents are also from the Levant but they are Muslim.

They are not open minded or progressive but also not nearly as conservative as other Arabs (I wasn't forced to wear the hijab and I was not coerced into a marriage). With regards to gender ideology, they genuinely believe it's all perversion and deviance. Maybe they'd even argue that it's mental illness if they were feeling generous. As others have said, kweer theory is truly a uniquely Western ideology. So when I seen it taken up outside the West, it is done in a way that really shows how misplaced it is. Non-Western societies simply do not have the language nor structures in place to be able to comprehend kweer theory. At least with regards to many Arab states, it's completely illegible.

S1mpslay3RMy Flair · June 28, 2020, 6:57 p.m.

こんいちわ

MarkTwainiac · June 28, 2020, 7:16 p.m. · 1 reply

OP, when you speak of "immigrant parents" are you speaking of immigrants to a particular country or set of countries? Or all "immigrant parents" everywhere on earth?

Fact is, people immigrate from every country in the world to nearly every other country on the planet.

I'd suspect that the views of immigrants on gender ideology and many other topics would vary greatly depending on which countries they came from and which countries they've immigrated to. Immigrants to France from Algeria and North Africa probably have different views about all sorts of things compared to immigrants to Canada from China or immigrants to Spain from Africa and immigrants from Pakistan and Bangladesh to Britain.

Even those who immigrate from all over to one particular country will come to their new country with greatly different views. I used to teach adults who immigrated to the USA under the US refugee program instituted in 1980. Usually out of a class of 18-20, the students would be of at least 15 different nationalities: the USSR, Cambodia, Afghanistan, Syria, Ethiopia, Yemen, Vietnam, Brazil, Romania, Niger ... All these people had very different views and experiences.

IceColdLover · June 28, 2020, 7:24 p.m. · 2 replies

I mean parents who immigrated from a non-Western nation to the US, Australia, Europe, etc where gender ideology is prevalent.

MarkTwainiac · June 28, 2020, 7:39 p.m.

Then you should say that.

loq453 · June 29, 2020, 12:13 a.m. · 2 replies

Bulgaria, and rest of Eastern Europe is still Europe, and is still a western country. Even if you consider Orthodox countries not to be western, you still have Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Croatia as Catholic countries in Eastern Europe, which makes them part of the western world.

Even among Western European countries the differences in prevalence among the academia and among the populace at large have huge variations. France, UK, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Italy, etc, all have different levels of acceptance.

But this thread isn't surprising, reddit is extremely americentric.

But in most of ex-Commie Europe, while gender ideology is making inroads among the social sciences in academia, the general person on the street still has the view that you can be a man or a woman or a disorder.

mamadvicethrowaway · June 29, 2020, 6:03 a.m.

I’m not sure why you’re being downvoted. You haven’t said anything incorrect or offensive. Americans love painting Europe with the same brush and get very touchy when actual Europeans tell them they don’t know what they’re talking about.

IceColdLover · June 29, 2020, 8:28 a.m.

I don't consider Bulgaria Western because the culture has not only been influenced by the Soviet period of history but also hundreds of years under the Ottoman Empire.

Marante · June 29, 2020, 7:34 a.m.

This was most of the world some 10 - 15 years ago, too.