TIMs being hurt by biological men is not a woman's problem. TIMs can take that up with biological men and keep using the men's bathrooms.

And a lot of transwomen get sexually assaulted when they go to the men's bathroom, and it's honestly quite disgusting how "cis men" can be violent and horny like this

Transwomen are cis men. They can be violent and horny. They assault women in their bathrooms.

I'm glad that you're asking questions and reaching out to people who disagree with you, that's a great skill and good mentality to have, generally speaking. I agree with most of what you say, but to clarify something:

And a lot of transwomen get sexually assaulted when they go to the men's bathroom

This is not actually true. Some of them have been assaulted(not sexually) for using the women's restrooms(by men, in the stories I've seen so far), but there's no real studies/surveys I've seen - even self-reported ones - on the numbers of transwomen assaulted in men's restrooms. I've never seen a single case of it(though I would be genuinely interested to read if someone knows of a case or study), the closest there is are stories of transmen like yourself being assaulted in men's rooms.

I appreciate that you’ve been able to identify some issues—but there are many, many more problems with self-ID than just sports and bathrooms.

Representation is a huge one. We need to have equal representation in government. Men historically do not vote for women or care about our issues. They can pretend they do, but when it comes down to reality they will pick men to hold the power.

Self-ID is eroding our legislated equal representation laws we fought to have.

Have you heard of Emilia Decaudin? A natal male (who has lived in Queens for a year and has been a “woman” for less time than that) beat out Corinne Haynes-Wood, a black woman who lived in Queen’s her entire life, for the female seat because of self-ID laws. He is also dismantling the “one female, one male” representation law. So, now this district has one white natal male in the female seat and one white natal male in the male seat.

Can you see how this will infiltrate other areas of our lives?

And it already is, Decaudin is just an example from last week.

We are also being silenced, threatened and fired for discussing these problems. Our petitions are consistently removed online, we are banned from subreddits for just posting here and if we dare mention sex is binary on any thread anywhere else, our posts are deleted and we are banned. There is no open discourse on this topic. When you can’t even question a flawed ideology out in the open, then you are facing a fascist opponent.

It is healthy to question the validity and efficacy of new policies. This is the crux of a democratic society. Each person within the community must hold some power to make change. If we are continually silenced in all public arenas for stating biological truths and their impact on our demographic, democracy is failing us.

I'm going to get backlash for this but honestly, tired of shutting my god damned mouth when lives are being ruined.

Why do you consider yourself a man?

Why so many young women, me included, thinking that their body is wrong and that the only escape is changing it from top to bottom?

Are you aware that you CAN and SHOULD present yourself as whatever you wish, wear whatever clothes you want, be WHOEVER you want, while still being a woman? It's what we fight for relentlessly.

You are a woman because you're adult, human and female, not because of what you look like, your interests, your choices.

Do you think trans women really understand what it's like to be women, when they've experienced a huge chunk of life living as men?

How can someone decide to be a man, or a woman, if not basing themselves on harmful stereotypes?

Please think before going through with this. Pumping yourself with hormones won't make you feel better.

Thank God im older now and didn't use tumblr when I was a teen or I might have absorbed these mysoginistic ideas. Please don't fall into this trap, don't let men win, you are a woman that deserves to be happy WITHOUT having to change her body because of this shitty awful society.

Hi! would you mind explaining what you disagree with? Thanks for at least trying to consider "the dark side's" pov. Have a nice day too :)

Here's that attention you ordered.

I'm glad to meet rational people like you. Most others seem to pick a side and demonize everyone who doesn't belong to their side, not even wanting to talk to them. Society can't exist in such a way for very long.

I think that transwomen should go to the men's bathroom, but only if they don't pass (same with transmen. They shouldn't go to men's bathroom if they don't pass). And a lot of transwomen get sexually assaulted when they go to the men's bathroom, and it's honestly quite disgusting how "cis men" can be violent and horny like this”

• Who decides who “passes”? Transwomen are men and should therefore use the men’s room.
• Men aussault men - how is this a women’s problem? How is this women’s responsibility to solve? Fight for your own third spaces but don’t take ours.
• Men shouldn’t be allowed in women’s spaces bc men commit violence against women. And trans”women” are men.

Get your own spaces, fight for them but stop making women responsible for your problems. We are not there to validate you or to be bullied or harrassed.

Why should 52% of the population being erased bc a miniscule portion of the population needs constant validation and feels “triggered” by not being the sex they want to be.

To be fair women thinking passing trans women with a GRC should be able to use the women's toilets was the norm until TRA started pushing for self ID and the trans umbrella which basically included everyone. Anyone remember that, it was only about 3 years ago.

The trans community had a lot of good will from women and they decided to use and abuse it. They proved they couldn't be trusted. Not because they committed crimes but because they didn't care or have any empathy for women or anyone but themselves. Debbie Hayton even wrote an article predicting it.

But, any way, the bathroom issue was only ever a distraction to stop people seeing the issues with prisons, women's shelters, dormitories, wards and changing rooms. I've used the men's loos multiple times but I wouldn't happily walk into a men's prison or sleep on a men's ward. Indeed I think you, even though you ID as a man, would be set the same risk in those spaces.

You are young and I hope you get the help you need to embrace your womanhood and resolve your internalized misogyny. Remember in future though that the c word is a slur; there are women and men, and than a extremely small portion that are confused and believe in the misogynistic and misandric views the patriarchy enforces on society. I hope you will one day overcome all of this.

I don’t know who told you the lies about a lot of men pretending to be women getting assaulted in men’s bathrooms, but though that might happen, more girls and women get assaulted by these men in women’s bathrooms and women’s spaces and also everyone can pretend to be woke.

I think it’s interesting that you acknowledge the male characteristics which make it unacceptable for trans women to compete in female sports - but you are unable to acknowledge the male characteristics which make it unacceptable for trans women to occupy female bathrooms. You might want to examine this further, because those two beliefs directly contradict each other.

How do you “consider yourself a man”? What does “man” mean? Honestly, so many young people are saying these things but they have not ever proved those thoughts any deeper than the same surface level discomfort with societal expectations and body discomfort that we have been fighting for years. I don’t feel comfortable with what society expects from women either, I’m not comfortable with my body either, but I don’t know what it means to “feel like a man,” and I also know that it is not possible to change my sex, nor can I possibly expect everyone to just pretend that I have - no matter how much the TRA team threatens everyone with cancellation and violence if they refuse.

I content myself with focusing on destroying the expectations that society has for me because of my sex, and getting comfortable with existing in this body. It is a process, but it is possible. You should know this.

Only letting "passing" trans people into their desired sex segregated spaces only creates a tier system. The passers, and the pass-nots. 99% of trans people simply do not pass. And it would probably push them to seeking even more extreme surgeries in this pursuit of "passing".

The problem with your thinking is that you think the issue resolves when the person looks like the sex they are masquerading as. Do you also think it's ethical for racially ambiguous white people to take spots reserved for minority/ethnic people? I mean, they look the part.

The analogy I gave is even less harmful bc one race masquerading as another does not pose an inherent physical threat to the new group they are entering. But a male absolutely poses a threat if he is entering a female only space. And I say this as a black woman. I would gladly deal with sitting next to a Rachel Dolezal at a conference specific to my people/community, than share bathrooms with a male.

This isn't about optics or who can visually fool people the most. Detrans TiFs are welcome in our bathrooms. Heck, even transitioning and fully masculinized TiFs are welcome too. But men/males will never be.

And the irony is that a TiM stands more of a chance at defending himself if he were assaulted in the male bathrooms than YOU would. They are male and built like men after all. It's women and children who have to resort to separating ourselves in our most vulnerable states (bathrooms, refuges, shelters etc), bc we don't stand a chance in hell otherwise.

Please think more about what you're advocating for. Think beyond "validating" your own existence and aesthetic. Think about those of us who simply exist in our reality and are afraid of having those little protections we had be diluted and dismantled in the name of gender ideology.

Hey OP, thanks for taking the time to hear out our side. r/GCdebatesQT might be a better place if you want some points questioned! Be safe, live your best life. We can present all the reasons we want (think of it as hearing out both sides, like a court case before a jury), but in the end it is still your choice to make, and what you decide can help you make a more informed choice. May you find peace with yourself. Take care! You are welcome here.

Do you like sport? What do you think would be the best option for trans kids, especially, who may not be on any medications (I personally hope not, not till they finish growing) to change their innate strengths and weaknesses?

Glad to see you here and hope you take lots of care of your health and don't rush to surgeries - not all trans men have them and you want a body that works, however you choose it to present!

Hi,

I hope you can soon move forward and understand that you are a woman. You can present in a traditionally masculine way and have traditionally masculine interests and still be a woman. Women come in all shapes and sizes and have all kinds of different personalities. But they are women because woman means 'adult human female'. Humans are either male or female dependent on their biology (exactly like how chickens are either hens or roosters depending on their biology). It doesn't mean anything when you say you 'identify' as a man - because you're not a man and you can't become a man.

Please can you explain what you mean when you say you consider yourself to be a man? Because to me, that's like me looking at a hen and saying 'i consider this hen to be a rooster'. A hen isn't a rooster - it's a hen :)

People have responded to this plenty but there's just one thing I have to address:

" It's not transphobic to have preferences "

Please stop referring to sexual orientation with the word "preference"-- this is exactly how TRAs are pushing a homophobic agenda, shaming and pressuring lesbians into having sex with 'trans women' by saying their "preferences" are "discriminatory" etc.

Before you argue that it's an exaggeration or "That's not really happening" just google the cotton ceiling and see how toxic this whole issue has really gotten.

Sexual orientation is not a preference. Same-sex attraction is an IMMUTABLE ORIENTATION.

You and I don't have to agree on every issue but please, please, stop using this "genital preference" ideology and shut it down when you see it. The lesbian community needs all the protection it can get right now.

But almost all transwomen claim to pass even though the majority of them don't pass.

Good for you for being critical and open to listening to different perspectives.

Completely separately from all the gender/sex/identity debates, I would gently point out that you are at an age when everyone struggles with who they are inside and how they want to be perceived by others. Some people struggle more than others. A lot of your views and understandings of the world will change with time and experience -- I say this not to be condescending, but coming from a place of reflecting on my own beliefs and behaviors when I was a teen/early adult. With the benefit of hindsight, I can freely admit that I was somewhat egotistical and also naive about a lot of things I felt sure about - and in some cases - for example in my relationship with my mother during those years, I look back with a degree of shame and embarrassment.

I suppose what I am trying to say in an indirect way is that it is easy in adolescence and early adulthood to take drastic decisions which can alter the course of your life, based on feelings and convictions which in all likelihood would have become more moderate or even change completely within 10 years or less. Maybe you have thought very hard about your belief that you are a man, and why you hold it (I'm not going to pretend I can understand it), but have you also thought about how you will feel in the future if you make such a huge change to your body?

Please get some proper therapy for your delusions about yourself. You'll never be a man. What you need to deal with is how men treat you, not try to indulge in something you can never accomplish, and in any event, never be accepted at except by liars.

Ok kiddo, please take this advice; don’t take any hormones or puberty blockers right now.

Your brain is still developing and puberty blockers are starting to show interference with that, and it puts you on a track - not a path- to transitioning. Same with hormones. A track is something that leads you one way and is hard, if not impossible to get off of. Not only are a growing number of female teenagers suddenly identifying as trans men, but more and more are de transitioning. Their voices are being silenced, most especially because they have a ton of regret. They can’t go back. They now have permanent issues, like their changed voices that are devastating to them.

If you still want to transition as an adult you’ll have an easier go of it because your brain is more fully developed, especially in areas of foresight and decision making. These aren’t fully developed until later than teen years, which is why so many teens take big risks and make bad decisions.

Moreover, “starting early” doesn’t seem to make as much of a difference for females compared to transitioning as adults.

TLDR; don’t actively medically stop puberty or start transitioning now. Keep your options open and let your brain develop to lead you. Explore who you are and don’t try to “construct” a “true self”. Just let it appear to you.

Good luck kiddo. Remember adolescence sucks for everyone but it does pass.

I think that transwomen should go to the men's bathroom... if they don't pass

It doesn't matter that you think TIMs who in your opinion "pass" should use female facilities. The consent of all the girls and women who use, rely on and in many cases fought and created those facilities is not yours to give away.

Also, who determines whether a TIM passes? Most TIMs think they pass much better than they actually do.

And a lot of transwomen get sexually assaulted when they go to the men's bathroom

Please provide evidence - aka receipts - showing this is actually true. It is, I believe, a baseless claim, just TRA BS propaganda. TIM Jenn Smith, who "presents" in a very stereotypically feminine way, has been using male facilities like public loos and changing rooms for 35 years - and says he's never had a problem. I suggest watching some of Jenn's videos on YT (Transanity) for his POV on why no male no matter how he looks or "passes" should ever be permitted to use female spaces or be referred to as any kind of woman. (Jenn eschews the terms "transwoman" and "trans woman" and goes with TIM.)

TIM Fionne Orlander uses men's facilities too, and has never experienced any abuse either. Fionne does say that other men sometimes take a look at him and say, "this isn't the ladies; it's the men's." To which Fionne always responds, "Yes I know, I'm a man." Then instead of attacking Fionne, the other guys typically smile sheepishly, say "sorry" and add a comment such as, "And a very pretty man at that" or "Nice dress."

I also believe that trans people shouldn't compete in their identified-genders sports. Transwomen still have the strength of men, and it'd be unfair if they compete against women.

So you recognize that TIMs have the strength of men when it comes to sport, and you think this has significant bearing in sport, but at the same time you think TIMs' male strength does not matter when it comes to female facilities where girls and women are vulnerable and our safety is at risk. Huh?

Fact is, the same male strength that makes it possible for a TIM easily to beat girls and women athletically also makes it possible for a TIM easily to beat, trap, rape, kill or just intimidate us in a place like a ladies loo, changing room, refuge, shelter or prison. A TIM prison inmate in Illinois USA who strangled his male cellmate to death with his bare hands was transferred to a women's prison cuz he claimed to be trans, and on his first day in the gen population, he used his male size, strength, penis and powerful male grip to rape a female inmate. Is that okay because he and some of his thought he could "pass" well enough, so

Again, it's not up to you decide that the safety of girls and women should be compromised.

Transmen still have the strength of women, and shouldn't have to compete against other men

TIFs who take testosterone still won't have a chance of keeping up with, much less winning, in sports against males. But the T will give them an unfair advantage competing against girls and women who don't take T. It's doping, meaning it's cheating.

You can tell yourself you're a man all you want. You do you. But regardless of whether you see yourself as a man or as the sex you actually are, the fact of the matter remains: the rights of all other girls and women on the planet are not yours to compromise or give away.

Whoa there terf, stop literally killing trans people :-P

I hope this lockdown gives you time to reflect on your transition and I hope that you do not start taking hormones. You should read about the side effects.

What do you feel about self ID transwomen, many pre-op in Changing rooms, locker rooms, prisons, women's shelters etc. ?

Hi there! Thanks for reaching out to the community. I'm similar to you in the sense that I agree with most gender critical perspectives but not necessarily all of them. I definitely recommend looking into the trans-medicalist community to learn more about whether or not transitioning is the right path for you. Blair White comes to mind as someone to look into on Youtube. (I don't agree with Blair on politics but some videos feel very refreshing.)

I came to identify with radical feminism because I always put women first. Many gender critical people are more defined by what they love than by what they hate or fear. Good luck on your journey :).

Why do you expect women to accommodate men in their bathrooms, because other men are violent?

Should you focus on teaching other men not to be violent instead of bringing a man into women’s bathrooms. Isn’t it sexist to put the burden on women vs men?

Not sure about this argument. I was assaulted by a cis woman a decade ago and it was terrible, basically nobody wants to believe you because it's against their mantras. That's when I realized that political feminism is a lie.

About competition, a trans man on injections would have a lot more testosterone than the women, so it would be unfair to them.

It doesn't matter if they pass or not, transwomen do not belong in women's bathrooms. "Passing" is subjective and what they think they look like, might not be what they actually look like. Even after extreme body modifications, there are still tells. Now, I'm not going to play the TRA game and dismiss their fears about going to men's bathrooms, so my suggestion is third (and even fourth) spaces for them. I'd completely support them if they pushed for separate facilities for themselves.

There are many more problems with TRA than sports and bathrooms. Compelling language, the erasure of material reality and biology in law, the destruction of young people for fashionable ideology, etc... but you narrowed the scope to those two, so there it goes: I support trans people's rights to access education, housing and employment fairly. I want them to live their lives free of violence and discrimination. Everything else that clashes with reality and truth is bunk and I reject it. Women are not feelings, an idea in a man's head or pink brains.

Thank you specifically for that lesbian comment. Do you think many other trans people think that way?

I think that most people wouldn’t care if a complete passing trans woman used the women’s restroom and didn’t make it about themselves and validation. As in no small talk, taking pictures, excessive looking in the mirror. But the vast majority are not like that. Some are still dressed as men, take pictures of teen girls, masturbate in the stall etc. These are the people that are causing outrage and getting reported. So it if has to be an all or non thing, then no trans women should use the women’s restroom because the majority of the creeps ruin it for the few good ones.

As for sports, trans men that have been on testosterone for a certain period of time need to play men’s sports. Prior to hormones of course they should be allowed in women’s, but it will get to a point where they are able to build enough muscle that women will not stand a chance.

Why do you want to transition? I identified as trans for a while but never went through with transition. I wanted to be good at sports. I wanted to be taken seriously at work. I wanted to be able to wear comfortable clothing. I wanted people to listen to what I had to say and not dismiss me. I had physical dysphoria. There was nothing wrong with me physically, there was something wrong with society. I would urge you to wait until your early, even mid, 20s before surgically transitioning if you haven’t already. No one wants boobs, they’re annoying and get in the way. But would you really prefer to have loss of sensation, pain, and scarring forever?

Both are women. One is a lesbian, the other is a straight woman. Neither are cis.

I go back and forth about young women who now self-identify as men: when I first learned about such women, I thought, "How dare they? How dare they escape the bad parts of womanhood? Painful periods and embarrassing menstrual mishaps; unwanted pregnancy; ubiquitous sexual objectification; constant sexual harassment, even sexual assault and rape when young; and, censure, invisibility, and hostility when past 45. Why are they running away? Why aren't they fighting the good fight...why are they leaving us to struggle against misogyny by ourselves...on our own?

And, then I remember that you've all grown up on the Internet...on Twitter, on Tumblr, on Tik Tok...and, that if I experienced my puberty there...there where the misogyny and hostility toward women is so...immediately present...so distilled...so intensified, that if I were your age, and spent a lot of time online, I might have transitioned, too.

And, then, I remember compassion.

I wish there were an internet for girls and women...one created by and for girls and women. I wish every young girl considering transitioning could experience it...could experience the community of sisterhood online, an internet without the sexual objectification of girls and women by men at all.

I wish we could define ourselves as "women" there without always having to pander to male sexual desire. And, I hope that, someday, you'll join us there.

Thanks for posting. Thanks for having an open mind. Hope you post again.

From a women in her 30s and been through being a teenage girl, this is my advice for you. Wait to have surgery and really seriously think about it, once you have surgery it can't be undone. Think of your life down the line, do you want children? Because if you go through with surgery you might end up sterilizing yourself and then you won't be able to have them. And, that's why I say wait, I didn't want kids as a teenager, but as I got older I changed my mind. And that's thing, your experiences and outlook as a teen will vanish, you will start having different goals and wants in life.

But also, I think teenage girls are told today that feeling uncomfortable in their bodies means that they should be the opposite sex, or that not being stereotypically girly makes them the opposite sex. Feeling uncomfortable in your body as a teen is perfectly natural, that's what no one who is pushing gender ideology is telling kids. Also, girls and women can be anything that men and boys can, we are good enough to be and do anything they can.

When I was growing up, I was a ''tom boy'' and I found it fun playing with boys and doing things that were traditionally reserved for males. I wasn't prepared to be restricted and boxed in just because I was a girl. And, gender non-conforming women and girls in the past are the ones that have helped break down a lot of stereotypes and barriers, we need newer generations of girls who are not girly stereotypes, because its them who will help break down even more barriers and expectations that society puts on women.

It might be a good idea to reflect on why you think you are a man. Is it through peer pressure? Is it through societies expectations? Try and really think about it before you make any permanent and irreversible changes. I don't believe changing who we are is accepting who we are and sometimes it takes a while to accept who you are.

Make sure your decision is your own. Enjoy your day :)