Chomsky chooses to be cancelled alongside Rowling in the coming 'TRAin of Terror'

Submitted July 7, 2020, 10:34 p.m. by Chunkeeguy

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53330105

44 comments recovered from the Pushshift database.
DadaBigfoot · July 7, 2020, 10:41 p.m.

So you have chosen...UwU

RavenclawSisters · July 7, 2020, 11:14 p.m. · 1 reply

What the hell is this post title?

Chunkeeguy · July 7, 2020, 11:54 p.m.

Chomsky throws his hat in with the people who are in line to be cancelled by TRAs in their 21st century Reign of Terror

parsons525 · July 7, 2020, 11:22 p.m. · 1 reply

150 fresh TRA targets

Sawcapra · July 8, 2020, 5:23 a.m.

Honestly might as well make them work for it. I’m happy to see a respected and a diverse bunch of people stand up against the itchy trigger finger of cancel culture. I think it’s the first obstacle to really putting the Gender Critical argument in the public eye for good

throawaybecause6 · July 8, 2020, 12:19 a.m. · 1 reply

Chomsky is a swerf already per their standards because he said you should abolish the porn industry so

lmaonope333 · July 8, 2020, 3:53 a.m. · 5 replies

I mean I'm against the mainstream porn industry because its predatory but if a woman wants to do porn or only fans that's her choice and I respect it

throawaybecause6 · July 8, 2020, 4:02 a.m.

How do you know whether it was really their choice though? If they had been given the same paycheck for a normal job don’t you think they would have chosen a regular job instead?

pcosthrowaway25828 · July 8, 2020, 4:41 a.m. · 1 reply

Don't support women humiliating themselves on camera for money.

This is not empowering, this is not to be respected, it's to be heavily discouraged.

realShustyRackleford · July 8, 2020, 8:47 a.m.

It's always a worry when money is involved. I used to put out some naughty videos under a fake name and, honestly, I did it for fun because I'm into it and I still love those videos, BUT there was never any money involved. I lived quite happily as a tattooist for my money (a lot of pride and identity come from skill building) so I could post as and when the mood hit me. It really was a purely me thing.

However if I was doing it for money I'd have to treat it like a job and stream regularly (now I'm a bit of a perv and even I wouldn't have been in the mood half the time and there's something humiliating in pretending you are), I would have to deal with disgusting regular clients with a self deprecating degree of 'respect' and cost up the value of my sexuality.

I considered it for sure, there's good money there, but my pride would never have it, it's much too personal. Loads of people work jobs they don't like for a living sure, I mean I get up and personal with all kinds of naked and gross in tattooing with utmost professionalism and that's a job I want, but letting others get up close and personal with all your gross and naked? That's not just miserable work, it's a paid violation of the self.

Sawcapra · July 8, 2020, 5:27 a.m. · 1 reply

I think in essence we all want to support female empowerment but at the end of the day the porn industry is patriarchal, people who watch and make porn contribute to an industry that kidnaps, rapes and exploits women for male entertainment and profit. Until a day comes where you can consume porn without endorsing an abusive system I think we should stand against it in unity

Jumpersplant · July 8, 2020, 10:11 a.m.

Porn is damaging in so many ways, even if it was made completely ethically (an impossibility), it's still not a good idea to engage in it. It teaches your brain to objectify others and not to mention the mental health effects.

Tamerlane2020 · July 8, 2020, 6:45 a.m.

Only fans is porn.

lucretiamott1 · July 8, 2020, 8:20 a.m.

Even if an individual woman chooses that path the existence of the industry as a whole is degrading to ALL women.

Tweeders55 · July 8, 2020, 12:32 a.m. · 1 reply

Feeling unsafe for writing on an online political rag like Vox? That's rich. What a jerk. Go JK.

jjdub7Gay Man · July 8, 2020, 7:34 a.m. · 1 reply

Imagine the chaos at Vox if one of those "journalists" ever misplaced the company thesaurus.

Tweeders55 · July 8, 2020, 7:43 a.m.

You must be old it's Google time. 🤔

JonnotheMackem · July 8, 2020, 2:31 a.m. · 5 replies

One signatory recanted within hours of the letter being published.

Jennifer Finney Boylan, a US author and transgender activist, tweeted: "I did not know who else had signed that letter.

"I thought I was endorsing a well-meaning, if vague, message against internet shaming."

She added: "I am so sorry."

You couldn’t make it up.

Takseen · July 8, 2020, 4:29 a.m. · 1 reply

It's bizarre. Either you agree with the contents of the letter or you don't, no matter who else signed it.

JonnotheMackem · July 8, 2020, 4:42 a.m.

Precisely.

If I agree with a statement that says freedom of speech is important, and I then find out a holocaust denier also agreed with it, it doesn’t mean I’m a holocaust denier.

Sawcapra · July 8, 2020, 5:33 a.m.

Yeah this is exactly what bugs me about TRAs, they only support things that are fashionable. Their entire movement have been energised by fashion. The second they find out someone they don’t consider fashionable agrees with them on a subject they’ll denounce it to keep everything presentable.

Personally I feel like their supporters are so herd-minded that they might actually try cancel this trans author had they stood by the open letter. This is all going to end in tears I swear

Mycatsnameispepper · July 8, 2020, 8:31 a.m.

Ah, but in Cancel Culture, one is judged by their associations. An act that aligned with that of JK Rowling, however tangentially, would fail the Purity Test, and she would herself be cancelled.

crlody · July 8, 2020, 8:47 a.m.

Lol facepalm, self-censoring really isn't any better!

Jumpersplant · July 8, 2020, 10:11 a.m.

The irony is completely lost

hxmxsxxxal · July 8, 2020, 2:45 a.m. · 1 reply

why do they make absolutely everything about them?? they aren’t mentioned once in the letter but still have a hissy fit saying that it’s all about attacking them.

Chunkeeguy · July 8, 2020, 3:36 a.m.

Malignant narcissism

lucretiamott1 · July 8, 2020, 8:28 a.m. · 2 replies

Anyone should be able to say anything they want. There are some vile things nobody wants to hear - example - extreme racism. The correct response to that kind of speech is not to clamp the speaker's mouth shut. The correct response to ignore it. Don't give it attention, don't give it an audience. Leave them alone, to shout into the wind.

crlody · July 8, 2020, 8:52 a.m.

Yes exactly! It's really not that difficult of a concept.

59ekim · July 8, 2020, 9:28 a.m. · 1 reply

This is not a sound strategy. Racist speakers aren't popular because anti-racists give them exposure, they're popular because other racists seek them out.

lucretiamott1 · July 8, 2020, 9:30 a.m. · 1 reply

Problematic speech is of course... problematic. The issue is where do you draw the line? Who gets to decide?

We can all agree that yelling "fire" in a crowded theater isn't acceptable free speech. What else should be banned?

59ekim · July 8, 2020, 9:46 a.m. · 2 replies

I don't know, but all I'm saying is that problematic speech isn't shouted into the wind, we can't pretend ignoring it will make it go away.

lucretiamott1 · July 8, 2020, 9:53 a.m.

I mean I agree with you, it's just where do you draw the line. That's a big issue...

Jumpersplant · July 8, 2020, 10:13 a.m. · 1 reply

It might not make it go away but it doesn't mean we need to censor people for wrong think

59ekim · July 8, 2020, 10:21 a.m. · 2 replies

Someone says "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children", you say "it's just a harmless opinion, let them be".

Continue reading
foocubus · July 8, 2020, 9:25 a.m.

It's amazing the power of the TRAs. The turned a fairly banal "free speech is good" letter into something that blew up Twitter entirely because a few people on the trans punch-a-terf list signed (including Jesse Singal, whom I wouldn't even call a full-blown TERF). It isn't about anything else or about literally any other marginalized group. Here's an example of one of these classic narcissistic men making it ALL about them. https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/1280666236754579458?s=20

verusckaWoman · July 8, 2020, 9:34 a.m. · 1 reply

Here is the letter from Harper’s this article is talking about:

A Letter on Justice and Open Debate

July 7, 2020

The below letter will be appearing in the Letters section of the magazine’s October issue. We welcome responses at letters@harpers.org

Our cultural institutions are facing a moment of trial. Powerful protests for racial and social justice are leading to overdue demands for police reform, along with wider calls for greater equality and inclusion across our society, not least in higher education, journalism, philanthropy, and the arts. But this needed reckoning has also intensified a new set of moral attitudes and political commitments that tend to weaken our norms of open debate and toleration of differences in favor of ideological conformity. As we applaud the first development, we also raise our voices against the second. The forces of illiberalism are gaining strength throughout the world and have a powerful ally in Donald Trump, who represents a real threat to democracy. But resistance must not be allowed to harden into its own brand of dogma or coercion—which right-wing demagogues are already exploiting. The democratic inclusion we want can be achieved only if we speak out against the intolerant climate that has set in on all sides.

The free exchange of information and ideas, the lifeblood of a liberal society, is daily becoming more constricted. While we have come to expect this on the radical right, censoriousness is also spreading more widely in our culture: an intolerance of opposing views, a vogue for public shaming and ostracism, and the tendency to dissolve complex policy issues in a blinding moral certainty. We uphold the value of robust and even caustic counter-speech from all quarters. But it is now all too common to hear calls for swift and severe retribution in response to perceived transgressions of speech and thought. More troubling still, institutional leaders, in a spirit of panicked damage control, are delivering hasty and disproportionate punishments instead of considered reforms. Editors are fired for running controversial pieces; books are withdrawn for alleged inauthenticity; journalists are barred from writing on certain topics; professors are investigated for quoting works of literature in class; a researcher is fired for circulating a peer-reviewed academic study; and the heads of organizations are ousted for what are sometimes just clumsy mistakes. Whatever the arguments around each particular incident, the result has been to steadily narrow the boundaries of what can be said without the threat of reprisal. We are already paying the price in greater risk aversion among writers, artists, and journalists who fear for their livelihoods if they depart from the consensus, or even lack sufficient zeal in agreement.

This stifling atmosphere will ultimately harm the most vital causes of our time. The restriction of debate, whether by a repressive government or an intolerant society, invariably hurts those who lack power and makes everyone less capable of democratic participation. The way to defeat bad ideas is by exposure, argument, and persuasion, not by trying to silence or wish them away. We refuse any false choice between justice and freedom, which cannot exist without each other. As writers we need a culture that leaves us room for experimentation, risk taking, and even mistakes. We need to preserve the possibility of good-faith disagreement without dire professional consequences. If we won’t defend the very thing on which our work depends, we shouldn’t expect the public or the state to defend it for us.

Elliot Ackerman

Saladin Ambar, Rutgers University

Martin Amis

Anne Applebaum

Marie Arana, author

Margaret Atwood

John Banville

Mia Bay, historian

Louis Begley, writer

Roger Berkowitz, Bard College

Paul Berman, writer

Sheri Berman, Barnard College

Reginald Dwayne Betts, poet

Neil Blair, agent

David W. Blight, Yale University

Jennifer Finney Boylan, author

David Bromwich

David Brooks, columnist

Ian Buruma, Bard College

Lea Carpenter

Noam Chomsky, MIT (emeritus)

Nicholas A. Christakis, Yale University

Roger Cohen, writer

Ambassador Frances D. Cook, ret.

Drucilla Cornell, Founder, uBuntu Project

Kamel Daoud

Meghan Daum, writer

Gerald Early, Washington University-St. Louis

Jeffrey Eugenides, writer

Dexter Filkins

Federico Finchelstein, The New School

Caitlin Flanagan

Richard T. Ford, Stanford Law School

Kmele Foster

David Frum, journalist

Francis Fukuyama, Stanford University

Atul Gawande, Harvard University

Todd Gitlin, Columbia University

Kim Ghattas

Malcolm Gladwell

Michelle Goldberg, columnist

Rebecca Goldstein, writer

Anthony Grafton, Princeton University

David Greenberg, Rutgers University

Linda Greenhouse

Rinne B. Groff, playwright

Sarah Haider, activist

Jonathan Haidt, NYU-Stern

Roya Hakakian, writer

Shadi Hamid, Brookings Institution

Jeet Heer, The Nation

Katie Herzog, podcast host

Susannah Heschel, Dartmouth College

Adam Hochschild, author

Arlie Russell Hochschild, author

Eva Hoffman, writer

Coleman Hughes, writer/Manhattan Institute

Hussein Ibish, Arab Gulf States Institute

Michael Ignatieff

Zaid Jilani, journalist

Bill T. Jones, New York Live Arts

Wendy Kaminer, writer

Matthew Karp, Princeton University

Garry Kasparov, Renew Democracy Initiative

Daniel Kehlmann, writer

Randall Kennedy

Khaled Khalifa, writer

Parag Khanna, author

Laura Kipnis, Northwestern University

Frances Kissling, Center for Health, Ethics, Social Policy

Enrique Krauze, historian

Anthony Kronman, Yale University

Joy Ladin, Yeshiva University

Nicholas Lemann, Columbia University

Mark Lilla, Columbia University

Susie Linfield, New York University

Damon Linker, writer

Dahlia Lithwick, Slate

Steven Lukes, New York University

John R. MacArthur, publisher, writer

Susan Madrak, writer

Phoebe Maltz Bovy, writer

Greil Marcus

Wynton Marsalis, Jazz at Lincoln Center

Kati Marton, author

Debra Mashek, scholar

Deirdre McCloskey, University of Illinois at Chicago

John McWhorter, Columbia University

Uday Mehta, City University of New York

Andrew Moravcsik, Princeton University

Yascha Mounk, Persuasion

Samuel Moyn, Yale University

Meera Nanda, writer and teacher

Cary Nelson, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

Olivia Nuzzi, New York Magazine

Mark Oppenheimer, Yale University

Dael Orlandersmith, writer/performer

George Packer

Nell Irvin Painter, Princeton University (emerita)

Greg Pardlo, Rutgers University – Camden

Orlando Patterson, Harvard University

Steven Pinker, Harvard University

Letty Cottin Pogrebin

Katha Pollitt, writer

Claire Bond Potter, The New School

Taufiq Rahim, New America Foundation

Zia Haider Rahman, writer

Jennifer Ratner-Rosenhagen, University of Wisconsin

Jonathan Rauch, Brookings Institution/The Atlantic

Neil Roberts, political theorist

Melvin Rogers, Brown University

Kat Rosenfield, writer

Loretta J. Ross, Smith College

J.K. Rowling

Salman Rushdie, New York University

Karim Sadjadpour, Carnegie Endowment

Daryl Michael Scott, Howard University

Diana Senechal, teacher and writer

Jennifer Senior, columnist

Judith Shulevitz, writer

Jesse Singal, journalist

Anne-Marie Slaughter

Andrew Solomon, writer

Deborah Solomon, critic and biographer

Allison Stanger, Middlebury College

Paul Starr, American Prospect/Princeton University

Wendell Steavenson, writer

Gloria Steinem, writer and activist

Nadine Strossen, New York Law School

Ronald S. Sullivan Jr., Harvard Law School

Kian Tajbakhsh, Columbia University

Zephyr Teachout, Fordham University

Cynthia Tucker, University of South Alabama

Adaner Usmani, Harvard University

Chloe Valdary

Lucía Martínez Valdivia, Reed College

Helen Vendler, Harvard University

Judy B. Walzer

Michael Walzer

Eric K. Washington, historian

Caroline Weber, historian

Randi Weingarten, American Federation of Teachers

Bari Weiss

Sean Wilentz, Princeton University

Garry Wills

Thomas Chatterton Williams, writer

Robert F. Worth, journalist and author

Molly Worthen, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

Matthew Yglesias

Emily Yoffe, journalist

Cathy Young, journalist

Fareed Zakaria

Institutions are listed for identification purposes only.

lairacunda · July 9, 2020, 5:05 p.m.

Pretty brave for academics, or anyone in this climate.

MadAzza · July 8, 2020, 1:09 p.m.

This letter thrills me!

Edit: All the different voices in agreement of free expression is so important.

RadarFemef · July 8, 2020, 2:06 p.m.

He’s a man, he will never be targeted for harassment in the same way. That’s part of how we know that sexism is alive and well and gender might be a social construct but sex isn’t.

Aunpasoportucasa · July 8, 2020, 3:48 p.m. · 1 reply

This is all very ironic. Who do you think this is going to affect in the end?

lairacunda · July 9, 2020, 5:06 p.m. · 1 reply

I think it's going to get them fired.

Aunpasoportucasa · July 9, 2020, 8:57 p.m.

I mean when freedom of speech is gone for everyone for a while, do we think enablers will run the show forever? What happens when the people who are really against it all are a majority in power?