Anyone else feel sympathetic to right-wing women for the first time?

Submitted July 8, 2020, 12:49 a.m. by gracehoward1729

This backlash and censorship for being a woman is making me somehow… relate? Let me be clear: not to their ideologies, but to how they must feel? It feels blasphemous to even say so…

I am politically lost. I was firmly Left-wing. I used to be a proud libfem, convinced I was doing right by girls and women, but now I’m like, as I see all these “otherwise impressive, strong women grovelling and humiliating themselves as a result of being sadistically bullied by some trans-activists” (@bindelj)- how could I have been so blind?

It’s not that I couldn’t see, it’s more like I purposely put on blinders. Convincing myself that we agree on the majority of things, and that just because we disagree on this, doesn’t mean I’m not a liberal feminist, it’s not a big deal.

Now look at what’s happened. Right to free public assembly has been taken away. Sex-based rights are being taken away. And what are the Left doing about it? insert cricket sounds here

From the Right I expect misogyny (how disturbing is that statement), but when it’s our own people, I feel a keen sense of betrayal that replaces my sense of belonging.

The supreme irony is that the attempt to silence women with the word ‘TERF’ may have pushed more young women towards radical feminism than the movement’s seen in decades.” - JK Rowling

When GC was banned, I woke up finally. I’m not a libfem who has gender critical thoughts. I am a gender critical feminist, i.e. a feminist. Period. And radical feminism isn’t the man-hating place it’s touted to be, nor is it that ‘radical’ at all. Its focus is solely dismantling the patriarchy, which is what I thought libfems were doing. Evidently not. And this is coming from someone who prides themselves on critical thought. Wow…

How long do we have to wait until all people reach peak trans, and what will it take for those who haven’t yet? Will it be too late by then? Society will have devolved fully back to its regressive state, using language such as ‘menstruators’ and ‘ejaculators’ to distinguish us, instead of woman and man. Remember in the not too distant past when men did that? And it was unequivocally misogyny? Now that it’s coming from ‘transwomen’ and ‘TRAs’, it’s suddenly okay? It’s ‘inclusive’, not misogyny? Does no one remember? Why are we repeating history, and why is it coming from people who claim to be liberals?! Liberals are the ones who dismantled that in the first place!

And then people will say ‘ejaculators’ is not fucking ‘inclusive’, because “some ‘menstruators’ can ejaculate too,” referring to female ejaculation, except it won’t be called that, it’ll be called ‘menstruator ejaculation’.

Seriously, I feel like I’m screaming into a void that until recently was fully occupied. WTF is going on. This feels like a dystopian fiction novel someone’s writing for fun, except that they won’t put the fucking pen down, and they’re forcing us to go along with their fiction and LIVE IN IT.

And since when do ideological differences result in censorship? We’ve ALWAYS encouraged debate and civil conversation as a people, because that’s what leads to PROGRESS. That’s what makes us different from animals, among MANY OTHER THINGS btw, to those comparing us to slugs. Why are we living in a time where an obvious distinction between slugs and humans has to be written down? I feel like I’m trapped in a fever dream that I’ve always known is a dream, but everyone in the dream is now claiming to be awake, or ironically 'woke', and now that I'm finally trying to wake up, I find that I cannot. Someone, please, please, wake me up.

63 comments recovered from the Pushshift database.
censorshipmentBlack Lesbian · July 8, 2020, 1:04 a.m.

I've always been aware of the liberal patriarchy. It's as misogynistic, sexist, racist, xenophobic, homophobic, exploitative, religious, etc as the conservative patriarchy. I've never felt politically aligned with "the left".

RadarFemef · July 8, 2020, 1:26 a.m.

Almost but still no. Right wing women still have chauvinist tendencies and usually believe in reinforcing homophobic and misogynistic cultural norms and expectations

Camberian · July 8, 2020, 1:30 a.m.

I don't know.

As a radical feminist constantly being othered, targeted and denigrated by radical feminists just for my sexual preferences, I never felt at home anywhere, nor do I feel at home anywhere right now. Nothing has changed for me.

And then there's this uncharitable "I told you so already" and "don't do upon others what you don't want done to yourself" thing going on, right along with a "you've earned that".

So for me it's not a new feeling. I have been ostracised by women all my life.

Tweeders55 · July 8, 2020, 1:53 a.m. · 2 replies

Right wing women aren't censored. The Republican men give them full throat. It's the left that's stifling it's own especially women it seems. Being a progressive woman politically I left the Democratic party. Pelosi and Feinstein literally hate us not to mention Hillary who practically accused liberal women who weren't for her not feminist and right wing. Though I do see what you're getting at.

gracehoward1729 · July 8, 2020, 2:58 a.m. · 6 replies

Ah, I do so regret the title of this post. Can't edit it unfortunately. I have heard the "I told you so already" and "don't do upon others what you don't want done to yourself" and "you've earned that" rhetoric, too, as Camberian said from them so I'm sorry for the title. I found it hard to word what I was feeling, and I know it's not something right-wing women go through as they ARE held up by their own side and "given full throat" as you said, so sympathy for them is irrelevant.

They are just against us, as well as our own side that is now against us, too. I was trying to name something I was feeling which I tried to get across in the rest of the post, and I'm sorry if it didn't come across right.

Southernbelllle · July 8, 2020, 3:28 a.m.

That's ok :), I don't agree but I see your intent and think it brings about an interesting perspective for discussion.

Camberian · July 8, 2020, 4:08 a.m.

Actually in my case, I get that from any which side. Left, centre, right, it doesn't matter. People are perfectly incapable of accepting the life or the opinions of others, discourse always is acrid, and anyone not 180% toeing the line will be othered. In every respect. Radfems and feminists are not better than TRAs - quite often there and certainly don't have any moral high ground.

Tweeders55 · July 8, 2020, 4:08 a.m.

Discussion and debate is key. What's unfortunate is biology has to be proven again. Boring. Also Imma thinking about applying to Vox as a writer and creating a dangerous environment. I here there's some wimp over there who feels unsafe. Like someone might poke his eye out with the latest in gel pen weaponry. WeeHaa!

blihvalsGay Man · July 8, 2020, 5:48 a.m.

"don't do upon others what you don't want done to yourself"

And yet this is always onesided:

"If you do harm to me - i will do harm to you back. But if I do harm to you - it is fine and you have no right to do harm to me."

crlody · July 8, 2020, 8:16 a.m.

Don't let others harden your heart. And stop apologizing when someone challenges you! You've got a lot of libfem instincts to unlearn. If you feel sympathetic toward ANY woman, regardless of her political leanings then you're doing feminism correctly. Radical feminism stands up for ALL women, even the ones we don't like or agree with. Otherwise what good would it do?

PS the "radical" in radical feminism does not mean extreme, as you allude to. It means "root," as in getting to the root of oppression.

MadAzza · July 8, 2020, 12:57 p.m.

Please don’t regret anything. Yours is an interesting perspective that I needed to see and think about.

blihvalsGay Man · July 8, 2020, 5:46 a.m. · 1 reply

Hillary reminds me Thatcher in many ways. And we all remember Section 28 by Tetcher. Law against homosexuality and feminism. And made by women, what a joke.

Tweeders55 · July 8, 2020, 5:53 a.m.

Hillary's first bill that she and a republican dude senator wrote was to make it illegal to burn the US flag and if caught automatic jail time. She swore not to mess with settled law but flag burning should not count as freedom of speech. Those pesky amendments.

stitchedlamb · July 8, 2020, 2:03 a.m.

Until the right wing grants women bodily autonomy, no, no sympathies here.

I am face palming over how conservatives are on the sane side of this issue, though. I still consider myself a leftie, but I can't say I'm feeling comfortable in many "progressive" spaces anymore.

ItIsnt0verYet · July 8, 2020, 2:10 a.m.

Not really, right wing women stand right beside right wing men spewing hate toward other people and trying to take womens healthcare from them. I feel a little sorry when they finally say something other republicans disagree with and suddenly start getting hate and death threats. Right wing women arent feeling sorry for you when you're getting heat from the far left/progressives.

redditisannoyinq · July 8, 2020, 2:29 a.m. · 4 replies

No not really, if anything I just feel like I don’t belong anywhere. The Left and the Right don’t represent me

throawaybecause6 · July 8, 2020, 5:30 a.m.

You shouldn’t feel pressured to get into any space anyway. That’s what I’ve learned after several years. Everything is political in a way but it doesn’t mean it’s all black or white.

jjdub7Gay Man · July 8, 2020, 7:26 a.m. · 1 reply

Ironically, the right is beginning to stand as the bastion of classical liberalism in the current climate.

crlody · July 8, 2020, 8:11 a.m.

Right!? If John Stuart Mill were alive today the left would try to cancel him for being a literal Nazi and the right would uphold him as a bastion of critical thinking and free expression. Insanity.

asdjkljj · July 8, 2020, 7:50 a.m.

Good.

ccnnvaweueurf · July 8, 2020, 5:01 p.m.

/r/anarchy101

gracehoward1729 · July 8, 2020, 2:32 a.m.

Thank you, I should have made those distinctions. Just because from my left-leaning position I see right women being alienated, does not mean they are as a whole. They are certainly not censored, either, especially from other people on the right. Ironically, maybe that's why they're there in the first place, SO they can be heard? Also, our right is not as right-wing as America's right, if that makes any sense. I should clarify I'm Australian, so this came out of left-field (forgive the pun) for a lot of us- not the hijacking of our political (and other) spaces by men, because since when has that not been the case, but that it is being done so outwardly and without mass condemnation- the 'TRAs' suddenly have so much power on both sides? How did this happen, and what did I miss?

RadSehkmet · July 8, 2020, 2:43 a.m.

No not really

Southernbelllle · July 8, 2020, 3:16 a.m. · 1 reply

No, regardless of what's goin gonna I don't feel that trans people should be persecuted for living how they want. I just want to be left alone, and not have ideology pushed on me when I don't agree. Let's just establish a third gender nuetral space for everyone who wants and let's all just go to bed.

_lujiaa · July 8, 2020, 8:05 a.m.

Are trans people really persecuted by the Right, though?

lawful-idealist · July 8, 2020, 3:51 a.m. · 1 reply

I definitely understand what you mean. It's even more clear to me because I happened to be reading Right-Wing Women as this started to go down, and there will be a line about female intelligence being valued only when agreeing with men or any number of other things we're currently seeing in action, and I'd stop and look at the wall for a few minutes mentally going "oh".

There is no political side or party that cares about women. Not in America, and not where I am. You can pretty much just choose which type of oppression you prefer, and how much you want to screw up other oppressed groups while you're at it.

asdjkljj · July 8, 2020, 8:25 a.m.

I very much doubt that women really have as little influence in society as many feminists say. Their assumptions usually start right of the bat taking the oppression of women by men as a given. But many of their conclusions are upside down. Women have a tremendous impact on dating dynamics. Females in general are the ones who choose their mates. It doesn't just all work through domination by males as many feminists posit. That in itself, with mating being one of the most powerful drives in evolution, one can also take the perspective that women have a tremendous amount of power. People should probably read more about evolutionary psychology to get a better perspective. In psychology, there is the Women are Wonderful Effect and our general tendency to protect and care about women more. There is an ingroup preference among women, but less so among men.

Examples and starting points for further literature:

Hugenberg, Kurt, and Sabine Sczesny. “On Wonderful Women and Seeing Smiles: Social Categorization Moderates the Happy Face Response Latency Advantage.” Social Cognition 24, no. 5 (2006): 516–539.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kurt_Hugenberg/publication/247838456_On_Wonderful_Women_and_Seeing_Smiles_Social_Categorization_Moderates_the_Happy_Face_Response_Latency_Advantage/links/0046352af27bc710f1000000.pdf

Rudman, Laurie A., and Stephanie A. Goodwin. “Gender Differences in Automatic In-Group Bias: Why Do Women like Women More than Men like Men?” Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 87, no. 4 (2004): 494.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Laurie_Rudman/publication/8226295_Gender_Differences_in_Automatic_In-Group_Bias_Why_Do_Women_Like_Women_More_Than_Men_Like_Men/links/0a85e5324b69af209e000000.pdf

If men just dominated and oppressed women as we are now commonly led to believe, then it would not be necessary for men to develop much aggression or distinguish themselves through physical strength. They could just gang up on all the women and work as a big bloc. But that is exactly what is not happening, so there are some pretty big flaws in today's feminist theory. Instead, there is competition between males, often intense, which would not be necessary if we actually lived in the world or had evolved in an environment feminists are portraying nowadays. We would also not have had such harsh penalties for rape if we had lived in such a culture, which are very illustrative for anyone who actually cares to research history.

Novemberinthechair · July 8, 2020, 5:10 a.m. · 1 reply

I would call it a certain type of understanding. It's covered in "Right Wing Women," by Andrea Dworkin. She also said right wing sexists want women to be private property. Left wing sexists want us to be public property.

TemperedChocolate142Woman · July 8, 2020, 7:08 a.m. · 1 reply

Came here to post about Dworkin's Right Wing Women. She absolutely nailed it with the property bit.

Novemberinthechair · July 8, 2020, 9:11 a.m.

She certainly did!

throawaybecause6 · July 8, 2020, 5:24 a.m.

No and I don’t know why I should in any way.They stand against everything I stand for. They are anti hijab because they are racist not because they see religion as patriarcal, they are anti trans because they believe those people should be “fixed” not because they genuinely feel that transition isn’t the cure to dysphoria (they probably don’t even know what that is), they are anti surrogacy because they think gay people shouldn’t have kids because of “nature” they are totally fine that straight couples have access to surrogacy. And they are not silenced at all, often times a lot of these women are in positions of power or in privileged places.

blihvalsGay Man · July 8, 2020, 5:43 a.m. · 1 reply

Wait, nowadays there is difference between left and right? I thought they all united against LGBT community and double united against women.

gracehoward1729 · July 8, 2020, 12:19 p.m. · 1 reply

I agree, but I cannot afford to be that cynical (or is it just being a realist), because I would just crumble away with the dust. I have to retain some hope for the triumph of sane people of the world. And we have to make a distinction between left and right because if they're all against us, then who are we / where do we stand? We have to align ourselves because we have to vote for someone, because we have to have political representation.

They’ve been co-opted, which in turn has enslaved the rest of us. How do we vote, where are we politically? That’s why I’m lost.

To (very very) loosely quote The Newsroom: The left’s original organising principles are being obliterated, and no-one should be laughing anymore; they should be scared shitless. My party's being hijacked, and it’s happening in real time. How is this not our top story every night?

blihvalsGay Man · July 9, 2020, 1:40 a.m.

Well, my statement is more like "current left are just masked right in disguise".

Mercenarian · July 8, 2020, 5:59 a.m. · 1 reply

Sometimes I feel sorry for right wing women because they are also victims of their ideology, they just don’t see it. Somewhat like an abusive relationship. Kinda depends on the person though. The big famous ones spewing their garbage to everybody I don’t feel so sorry for.

I don’t feel sorry for any right wing men since they’re the ones who started this garbage.

AsIfItsYourLaa · July 8, 2020, 10:06 a.m. · 1 reply

right wing men started the TERF garbage?

Mercenarian · July 8, 2020, 4:01 p.m. · 1 reply

K koreaboo. Funny you think your Korean idols aren’t TERFs

AsIfItsYourLaa · July 8, 2020, 8:38 p.m. · 1 reply

uhhhh hate to break it to you but my dad is Korean and I was born there lol love how defensive you got when i'm just trying to clarify your statement but go off with your xenophobic self

Mercenarian · July 8, 2020, 9:31 p.m. · 1 reply

Lmao how am I xenophobic? I never said anything bad about korea. Just they wouldn’t fit your SJW viewpoints. And you’d consider them TERFs. Korea has some of the best feminist groups BECAUSE they’re not libfem but go off on how you magically deduced I hate koreans because of that comment somehow. I hate you not them lmao

AsIfItsYourLaa · July 8, 2020, 9:43 p.m.

yo chill who hurt u lmao

do you even know what sub you're on? or do you just treat every reply as disagreement? I literally just asked you to clarify a statement you made but somehow you morphed that in your head into "i hate women" wat

izumokuni · July 8, 2020, 6:45 a.m.

Not in the slightest. Fuck them and their movement.

fpcggc · July 8, 2020, 6:46 a.m. · 1 reply

Yes I do. I feel ashamed of myself, but when the movie Bombshell came out I said, “Why would anyone watch this? Why would I care about conservative Fox News women being sexually assaulted? They’re shitty people.” I honestly feel ashamed for ever thinking that way.

It is a good movie. I recommend it. However there was a very triggering scene in it.

mcskewsme · July 8, 2020, 11:52 a.m. · 1 reply

This is sort of how I felt watching Handmaid's Tale.

fpcggc · July 8, 2020, 12:04 p.m. · 1 reply

As in you maybe didn’t feel bad for the wives ?

mcskewsme · July 8, 2020, 12:28 p.m.

Sorry, I should have given an example since that was confusing. Mrs. Waterford had these radical religious views on how she thinks the world should be, and to save humankind from extinction. But once she experienced what it really started to feel like, oppressed, without a voice, I took just a little bit of sympathy with her. Not much (I'm atheist) but some.

asdjkljj · July 8, 2020, 7:39 a.m. · 2 replies

I am politically lost. I was firmly Left-wing. I used to be a proud libfem, convinced I was doing right by girls and women, but now I’m like, as I see all these “otherwise impressive, strong women grovelling and humiliating themselves as a result of being sadistically bullied by some trans-activists” (@bindelj)- how could I have been so blind?

Stop picking your positions on issue by party lines. It's a terrible way to reason and an awful way to live.

Don't think about what your party's line would be, think about things issue by issue. This way, you are inevitably find contradictions in your party line. That is a good thing.

Remember that politicians are generally liars. The political pendulum might swing, but it never swings so far that one side is absolutely right and the other absolutely wrong.

librarylady1980 · July 8, 2020, 9:26 a.m.

THIS.

gracehoward1729 · July 8, 2020, noon · 1 reply

Hi, thanks for your reply.

I did not choose my position on issues based on party lines. I chose my position on various issues after serious critical thought, and found that the majority of those positions aligned with the political left.

It is necessary to figure this out because when it comes to voting, there's no middle ground even if that's where you really are politically, at least in Australia. Right now, with the current system, there's no room for nuance in politics, and that's another very important discussion to be had. We have Labour (left) and Liberal (right) - ironic names, right? Guess we're the upside-down country for a reason lol.

Anyway, I wrote this post to try and convey that through thinking about things issue by issue, increasingly there are more and more things I disagree with. Which reflects some kind of infiltration / hijacking, no? You cannot imagine how strongly I agree with you on your stance against mob mentality. It's just that it's necessary sometimes to gather like-minded folks so that your voices are heard louder. That's what the TRAs are doing, and it's certainly working for them.

I was just trying to express my frustration that the people I had aligned myself with politically were now, as a group, the majority at least (or rather a loud minority), parroting each other without stopping to THINK. I said I was lost because 'politically' I am. Not on my stance on certain issues. I remain firm on my stances. Hope that made sense.

MadAzza · July 8, 2020, 12:53 p.m.

It does make sense.

GeneralRow7 · July 8, 2020, 7:41 a.m. · 1 reply

I get what you are saying.

Having people assume what you believe and that you must spew hate all day just because you have an opposing view. Making straw man arguments against you.

I see it in the comments even lol

gracehoward1729 · July 10, 2020, 2:57 a.m. · 1 reply

Yes, exactly. Thanks for getting what I was trying to say, when evidently I couldn't properly convey it.

GeneralRow7 · July 10, 2020, 9:30 a.m.

You did convey it just fine. 🙂

I am a leftie who comes from a family of righties.

I don’t agree with them but hate it when they are painted out to be racist/sexist monsters. They are good people with an opposing viewpoint.

_lujiaa · July 8, 2020, 8:01 a.m.

Yes. I also used to be far-left but now I consider myself neither left nor right since both sides are terrible.

Tufkidd · July 8, 2020, 8:11 a.m.

No

thug-chuckles · July 8, 2020, 8:21 a.m.

No

fuzzbutt22 · July 8, 2020, 8:58 a.m.

There is no left or right, only rich men and their handmaidens, the same people are running both 'sides'. Left/right is just a convenient way to divide people. And remember, men are still men, a number still want to control women, no matter what 'side' they're on. 'The right wants women to be private property, the left wants women to be public property'.

librarylady1980 · July 8, 2020, 9:19 a.m. · 1 reply

Same. I'm am in the exact same place as you. I feel betrayed by the left. About a year ago I woke to the harm libfems are doing to us. I can't unsee what I've seen from TRAs. I feel lost, that there's no political affiliation that truly reflects my views. I'm not a part of the Left or the Right now. I guess I'm just me...and that in a way is very liberating...but also very scary in not having a nice neat little box to identify with.

gracehoward1729 · July 10, 2020, 3:10 a.m.

I guess I'm just me...and that in a way is very liberating...but also very scary in not having a nice neat little box to identify with.

Yes, precisely, liberating and definitely scary- especially when it comes to the lack of political representation and such negative coverage by the media. And the ironic support TRAs have from 'feminist' young women.

… without a doubt it is more comfortable to endure blind bondage than to work for one's liberation; the dead, too, are better suited to the earth than the living.” ― Simone de Beauvoir, The Second Sex
"I wonder at what point the TRA woke bros will turn on all the gullible young women currently fighting their battles? I wonder when these women do inevitably get thrown under the bus when they’re no longer of use, will they realise what absolute fools they’ve been taken for?" ― Twitter (@HotHandLuke1)

"If there's an upside to the whole trans ideology thing, it's in discovering the people who recognize it for the sexist, totalitarian religion it is. It's like a litmus test to find the most intelligent, compassionate, conscientious, rational people. (And the opposite, sadly.)" ― Twitter (@net_nuance)

SugarPlumFairyDust · July 8, 2020, 9:19 a.m.

Can’t relate, sorry. I still think right-wing politics are an actual enemy whereas I don’t actually view trans politics as a whole an ENEMY, just moreso something I have disagreements with.

foocubus · July 8, 2020, 9:36 a.m.

I agree with all of this... except for the post title, lol. The immense power the TRAs have over the left is like nothing I've seen before. The Black lobby can't approach it. Nor can the environmental movement or labor. All of these can be criticized to some extent. But even the mildest criticism of the TRA agenda and you have to hand in your lefty credentials. It's insane.

Right-wing women, however, ironically do not get even a tenth of the wrath that JKR experiences. Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin can say whatever hateful shit they want about trans people. TRAs know they have no power over them; they know conservatives don't give a shit about cancellation and in fact love it when liberals try to get them cancelled (that's Ben Shapiro's entire schtick).

On the other hand, TRAs are trying to get a solid liberal like Matt Yglesias fired from Vox because he dared co-sign a letter with the evil TERF death-eater lady. Between that and the virus and the usual Trumpian insanity, you're dead on this being the dystopian fiction novel!

Fuckingsealions · July 8, 2020, 4:46 p.m.

I'm a radfem and I like this handy dandy chart if someone declares I'm just like a conservative. https://i.redd.it/wotyo92p8tl01.jpg

verusckaWoman · July 8, 2020, 10:38 p.m.

No

hmmmmm5457 · July 9, 2020, 1:20 p.m.

I'm black, so no.