The only incentive.

Submitted July 9, 2020, 4:38 a.m. by ThreatOfViolence

Apologies for the long ramble. I've been inactive for a while, trying to get less screen time during lockdown, but upon the mass Reddit purge I've decided to return.

Something that I've come to realise, during my time in various circles (prior to this account), is that there are only a few incentives that will make people act in acceptable manner.

One of those, and the reason for my account name, is the threat of violence.

Now, what stops a pervert from entering a woman's space? Is he worried about how the women might feel? No. He's worried that either a woman he has targeted will be carrying pepper spray (or some other means of self defence), or that other men will apprehend/attack him (law enforcement or otherwise). The only thing that prevents these people from having free reign is the threat of violence.

With TIMs, as I'm sure we are all aware, that threat of violence is not present. TIMs are able to enter bathrooms and act with impunity, because nobody can touch them. They do not feel threatened. Unlike a bog-standard pervert, to threaten a TIM entering a woman's restroom would be considered a "hate crime" by the majority of western societies.

I understand the idea that many do not wish to stoop to their level in exhibiting threatening behaviour, but this is the only language that pornsick perverts understand.

Another realisation that I have had, though more recently, is that the majority of people do not respond positively to well thought out arguments. Someone else here made this point too, she said that most people who have "peaked" were not peaked by the arguments of radfems or gc individuals. It's not that they are bad arguments, but because most people respond more to social pressure than they do to well thought out discussion.

I was once of the opinion that I could change people's minds by providing a well thought out argument, and discussing beliefs with them. I would do this only to find that, the next day, those very same people who had agreed with me had returned to their old TRA talking points.

I decided to change tactics, and I simply started bullying and ridiculing people. Whenever other men would mention TRA nonsense, I would laugh at them and say something to the effect of "yeah, I bet she had a real nice penis mate" in a mocking tone.

I have found that social shame and ridicule, at least in this case, work far better than logical thinking and persuasion. Remember, many people who have fallen into TRA thinking have done so because of social pressure - nobody reaches these positions by thinking about things logically.

Now, I'm not a particularly physically imposing person. I'd say I have a medium build. But simply by having a domineering personality, an individual is able to make others hang their heads in shame. Not that I enjoy doing it, but it's the only way to get through to many people.

Of course, there are people out there who will respond positively to a well-presented argument. This is the difference between my girlfriend (G) and my friend (F).

F is a male TRA. Multiple times I have explained to him my position, and he has agreed with me almost every time. On just about any issue, I can convince him of a position that is the polar opposite of his own. However, F is surrounded by TRAs in his online spaces, and is consistently witnessing people being shamed for disregarding TRA dogma. Therefore, the fear he has of being socially shamed stops him from permanently adopting other positions. At one point, at a social gathering, he attempted to shame me in front of G. He called me transphobic, and she laughed in his face. "I know," she said. He looked away, hanging his head awkwardly. That's when it hit me. From then on, I began shaming him whenever he brought up trans stuff. He stopped bringing it up very quickly.

G, on the other hand, is an exception to the rule (as I'm sure most people here are). She responds very negatively to social pressure, and positively to sensible conversation. The majority of people are not like the people on GC Reddit. That's why we are a small (albeit growing) community.

Shame, social pressure, and the threat of violence. These are the only things that will put a system in place that will protect women and prevent TIMs from invading female spaces.

That's just my opinion. If you disagree I'd be interested to hear an opposing position.

5 comments recovered from the Pushshift database.
creamtart_ · July 9, 2020, 8:24 a.m. · 1 reply

This is an excellent observation. It really can feel impossible to argue logic and reason with a truly ignorant person. No point wrestling pigs, right?

In saying that though, it could also be argued that ongoing threats of violence can actually exacerbate the situation. What I mean is that by bullying the bully, their anger will intensify, but they won’t attempt to fight you, they know they can’t win that fight. They’ll choose a more vulnerable victim and project that violence onto them instead. This is evident in a lot of domestic violence situations, e.g. man assaults woman -> other men assault him for assaulting the woman -> he feels emasculated and ends up assaulting the woman again. I see this in my line of work constantly.

Violence, physical or non-physical, never provides a long term solution. Fear does not work to keep people in line, education and encouraging behaviour change through nuanced discourse is the only way.

ThreatOfViolence · July 9, 2020, 12:54 p.m. · 2 replies

You make a good point here. However, I enjoy the company of a lot of "normies" - none of them are going to want to read or listen to an in depth discussion, and I don't want to make them if they aren't interested. Not everyone has to be knowledgeable on such things, there just has to be a strict social contract that people abide by. I was probably overstating the practicality of the threat of violence, but that ever-present threat (be it of prison or otherwise) is what forces many would-be criminals to abide by the social contract.

Of course, the issue you bring up of repeat offenders is valid - but the only reason they are able to offend again is because the current social contract favours the rights of the perpetrator over the rights of the victim (e.g. cases where rapists have custody of children conceived through rape).

I wholeheartedly believe that fear (be it of prison, violence, shame, or becoming ostracised) is an excellent incentive for people to check their behaviour. Abuse victims find it hard to come forwards because of the threat of further violence if they do - abusive people need to be afraid to abuse because of some fitting form of justice that will be enacted upon them.

Anothercrazyoldwoman · July 9, 2020, 1:45 p.m.

The point you make here is why it’s important that stuff that doesn’t make sense and/or is detrimental does not become normalised and the default.

As you say most people don’t want lengthy logical arguments or to know all the aspects of an issue. They’ll go with the generally accepted, majority, point of view.

joogabah · July 10, 2020, 11:43 a.m.

Is there no hope of educating people about critical thinking skills? Could we perhaps be living in a time when that is discouraged by particular institutions because of the class struggle?

ResidentDarkness · July 9, 2020, 9:38 a.m.

I have the exact same position on so many issues regarding feminism and otherwise. I don't agree with this idea that feminism will go forward by logic and reason alone, or well thought our arguments, or good statistical studies alone. Because it's actually been proven that people don't change their arguments even when presented with facts, for example, any Trump supporter about how terrible his president of choice is.

The only way you bring about change is that you give people an incentive to force them to change. I don't spend my time arguing the minor points of gender critical stuff on people who are so deep in the gender ideology garbage that they can't see any facts. Feminism is not the exception to this rule that change is brought about by us forcing through and forging through rather than trying to be nice and having a debate with everyone you come regardless of their intentions.

Out of all the social movements why is feminism supposed to be the nice one? Because it has women? Because women are not supposed to burn stuff and riot when their rights are taken away or their protections gone? Instead we are supposed to debate our humanity with those who never saw it in the first place? We are supposed to beg and plead for decent treatment?

No more of this. We need to take up harsh tactics because patriarchy isn't listening. It's time to hit them where it hurts. It's time to get out in the streets and show them we're not to be trifled with. I know many of us are angry and we should show them just how angry we are. We lost about 15 years at least trying to do nice feminism and it's gotten us nothing.