Open Discussion: Why do you dislike the transgender community?
Submitted July 24, 2019, 3:48 p.m. by Jassy2cuteI found this subreddit recently after searching up Jessica Yaniv. I wasn’t surprised to see the comments on that post paint all trans individuals in the same way as...Jessica Yaniv (mostly trans women) but I was a bit shocked to see this was a community of LGB individuals. So I was curious and wanted to know where the problem started for most of you here.
Just a discussion so please let’s be civil and no name calling. I’m here to listen, and have a conversation as a trans woman myself.
39 comments recovered from the Pushshift database.
There was a post about Jessica Yaniv, my apologies I did make a generalization off of one post. I mean no disrespect truly. I agree that children shouldn’t be involved in Transgender discussions. I don’t think their minds are no where near ready to comprehend the challenges that would face and realizing a potentially devastating mistake. A quite a few of us think this way. Of course not everyone in any demographic will share a single idea.
And to respond to your statement, my username was most definitely a phase but I can change it so whatever🤷🏽♀️ right? I do believe that gender dysphoria is needed to be transgender and it should be diagnosed by a mental health professional who see a medical transition the necessary treatment. Being trans is no walk in the park and there are risk. You have to be able to understand that, to truly have a gender incongruence. So I guess I am the Transcum?
I keep my conservative views to myself often, only discussing with people I feel can have a conversation about it. Thank you for sharing by the way!
Thank you for having a genuine discussion with us, it's very much appreciated!
I'm not sure if you know of the subs yet, but there are definitely places on Reddit for trans people who do believe gender dysphoria is required. r/truetrannies used to be the main community but moderators stopped being actively involved and it started being overrun with the "I think therefore I am" types, and people were getting disgruntled. One of the more active members got ahold of r/truscum and became a mod there instead, and someone else made a break-off sub around the same time of r/Transmedical.
And if you hold conservative views in a more political sense, there's also r/RightwingLGBT
Yeah, the term is Transmed. Since the terms truscum (true transsexual scum) and tucute (too cute to be cis) are obviously terribly offensive to people who are ‘truscum’, the term transmed came alone to replace it. For the reasonable ones of us who know you need gender dysphoria to be trans (most trans kids are surprisingly passionate about this in my experience)
#
Naw, don't be so willing to label yourself. You come across as someone with questions and who wants to talk things over, find out what other people think, even if you may disagree. That's the complete opposite of a bad thing.
I see this as being akin to pulling the #notallmen card. Feminists want safe spaces from men because males as a class are a statistically significant danger to us and men immediately tell you it’s #notallmen. We try to talk about male violence and get hit by #notallmen.
We try to talk about how trans people have taken advantage of women in prisons/toilets/changing rooms, used cotton ceiling rhetoric, or committed other violent acts and we get slapped with the #notalltrans or r/thatneverhappens.
It’s a derailment tactic. I think that terms like ‘genital preference’ are homophobic, that doesn’t mean I hate all trans people or think all trans people subscribe to rape culture. I quite like reading the blog of Miranda Yardley for example, I don’t have a problem with people like her. Claiming any criticism against your movement is hateful/bigotry/literal murder is a strawman designed to shut down legitimate debate and absolve the trans community of having to answer for the problems with in their movement.
I wanted to quote this bit of your post because it was so good:
We think that the modern aggressive, inconsiderate and detached from physical reality transactivism and transgender/queer ideology has pushed for legislation that enables sexual predators.
I couldn’t agree more. I’ve been sent death threats online, been called hateful, bigoted, sub-human and a whole bunch of other horrible because (somewhat ironically!) I posted an article about how Trans activists should not shut feminists down with violence, intimidation and threats. I want to preserve female safe spaces because I care about the rights of females, I am not motivated by a hatred of trans people. Just because we recognise that there are some predators in the trans community it does not mean that we think all trans people are like that.
My main issue is that by forcing trans people to use the facilities of the their AGAB, it opens them up to being harassed or attacked.
Furthermore, on your last point, there are also predators in the lesbian community for example. Does that make it a good enough reason to kick ALL lesbians out of spaces they should be reasonably allowed?
Could you please find me some statistics from an unbiased source of trans people being harassed or attacked for using the facilities set aside for their sex? I’ve seen some stats that makes me skeptical this happens.
Even if it did happen, I fail to see why women should have to surrender their safe spaces for the benefit of trans people. Trans people could campaign for one or two gender neutral toilets. There are already gender-neutral toilets available for disabled people so it could be an extension of these facilities.
Predatory lesbians? Citation needed.
I'll take you at your word that you are posting in good faith.
I'll only speak for myself, but I have some major disagreements with trans activists, including:
1) I object to the rewriting of the history of LGB activism to suit the trans narrative. I was an adult in the 1980s and 1990s, and I know for a fact that not a lot of trans people were involved in LGB activism back then. I didn't even meet a single trans person until 1992 when I was 26 years old. The argument that trans people were always at the core of gay activism is simply not true. That's not to say that none were involved, but the numbers were extremely small. We formed a Gay and Lesbian Association at my college in 1988, and, as far as I knew then or know now, there were no trans students in the entire student body.
2) I strongly object to lesbians being told aggressively and coercively that they should make themselves sexually available to people with penises and being shamed if that's not what they want. It makes a mockery of all the work we've tried to do on the topic of consent and constitutes sexual harassment. Yet, many trans activists seem to think this kind of behavior is OK.
3) I'm very concerned about the fast-tracking of children into transition and the use of dangerous puberty-blocking drugs that can have life-changing side effects. I would cite numerous concerns about this voiced by people who have resigned in protest from gender clinics because they think that the doctors there are behaving irresponsibly.
4) The Yaniv controversy has pointed out the potential for abuse raised by Self-ID laws, and yet the trans community seems paralyzed about what to do about people like Yaniv because they have painted themselves into an ideological corner.
5) For me, personally, a gay male group I used to belong to has gradually been taken over by people with a queer/trans agenda, and, recently, they staged a coup once they had enough moderators on their side to do it. We were told that anyone who didn't want queer women, trans women, etc... at ALL our events would be banned from the group. This was a group that had been a gay male group since the 1970s, but suddenly, those of us who'd participated in it for years were told we had to bow to the new management or be banned. So, apparently, even a small group of gay men who wanted to have some small gay male events are not allowed to have that anymore. Among the ugly name-calling that ensued, we were compared to white supremacists by the trans faction.
Those are my main points. I don't "dislike" the entire trans community, but you have some very aggressive leadership.
How? I really don't think that it matters, legally whether Yaniv is legally considered male or female. I don't think it matters whether Yaniv is considered really trans or not. She is basically universally reviled, in fact is probably more broadly reviled because of the sensationalism around her "being a trans activist" which has caused this to be in the news to a far greater extent than it would have been. If there is ever a good reason to bring charges against Yaniv, I'm sure they will be brought and a conviction will be likely no matter what Yaniv's legal gender is. Am I wrong?
Also who is the aggressive leadership that you refer to? As a trans person I am curious as to who my "leaders" are.
You're not wrong, Walter, you're just an asshole.
Of course it matters legally. If Yaniv is legally considered a woman, then, according to Yaniv's civil rights complaint, the women offering waxing services cannot legally deny Yaniv services that they offer to other women. It doesn't matter whether Yaniv is popular or reviled. It's a matter of policy written into Canadian law. That's the problem with these Self-ID laws; if you can become a woman, to all legal intents and purposes, simply by saying you're a woman, then you can legally demand to be treated as a woman by people offering business services to women. Trans activists have left us no way to distinguish between people who seem to be acting in good faith and people who seem to be using this policy to play perverse games with people's lives and livelihoods.
Reading what you've written, I'm not sure you even understand the basic facts of the situation -- like the fact that Yaniv filed civil rights complaints against women who would not wax his genitals. Yaniv is not on trial here . . . yet. No charges against Yaniv have been filed.
How would you like to be one of these women caught up in a legal case against you filed by Yaniv? Do you have any empathy for them? And feminists predicted this would happen even before Yaniv appeared on the scene. They predicted that this would open the door for people to abuse this policy, but we were all told that things like that "never happen."
If trans activists are going to promote these policies and have them enacted into law, then they should also be responsible for trying to help figure out how to prevent abuse of the policy, but, thus far, other than wishing that Yaniv would just go away, they don't seem able to come up with any policy solutions, probably because a solution would require some sort of gatekeeping. And we all know how TRAs hate gatekeeping of any sort.
As for your leaders, you have individuals like Riki Wilchins and Susie Green of Mermaids. You have representatives at the ACLU and on the boards of organizations like Stonewall and the HRC. You have advocacy groups like WPATH. Do you not know who is speaking for you on a national/international level?
I don't think that's true. It is surely perfectly legal to deny a woman service if there's a good reason. Yaniv won't win the case on that basis.
Maybe if you're being obtuse. I can tell the difference. I bet the tribunal will be able to tell the difference.
I do understand the basic facts. Since right-wing circles have blown this story up, there has been an intense focus on JY. This has revealed a lot of what she's been doing online like creepily talking to teenagers, being obsessed with periods, etc. There's an article from a couple of days ago with accusations of JY having CP and soliciting minors for sex. When I say that Yaniv might have charges brought against her, that's what I'm referring to.
I wouldn't. Yes I do.
Meh, I don't see this as a big problem. I hope the tribunal will rule in favor of the defendants. I think that is the only reasonable outcome and I have no reason to suspect the outcome won't be reasonable. It doesn't even have to be "gatekeeping". It literally doesn't matter if Yaniv is "really trans". They can rule against her either way. I don't understand why you people seem to take civil rights law to mean "trans people can do no wrong, so if a tribunal accepts that you're trans you must be right". That's not how any of this works.
Nope. I'm not involved in that. I don't really care. I only hear about it when right wingers start losing their minds over something. The people who freak the fuck out over this stuff are the same people who are my enemies anyway, so I just assume "my leaders" must be pissing off the right people. I'm sure that whatever you're mad at Wilchins and Green for are things I would shrug at and be amused that it pissed you off.
That remains to be seen.
I think it's 100% clear. It's how the law is written. If you can make sense of what's written in the law, it's very clear.
As a trans person, you absolutely should be invested in who is representing you. Your apathy and sardonic laughter towards others means you've allowed people like Yaniv to become your public figures. Your community has created laws, rules, and regulations which allowed this to become a reality. And now that it's become dangerous to the movement, you say "not really trans" and blame the right as if they were the ones supporting any of this.
The right "blowing the story up" is because they're the only ones who will actually call it out for what it is. Why aren't your liberal media news sources speaking about it too? Where is PinkNews? Where is HuffingtonPost? crickets crickets Your community calls anyone who warns/warned of this outcome bigots, transphobes, TERFs, etc, and have systematically silenced them.
It's apparent from your comments that you're not attempting to understand, but instead here to spread the "no true Scotsman" argument combined with feigned innocence. You can do that on other subs that haven't banned you yet.
Exactly, and by doing so, they have painted themselves into a very tight corner where they can't figure out what to say about someone like Yaniv that doesn't somehow invalidate or undermine the extreme, uncompromising positions they have staked out.
If that's what the T leadership wants to handle it, then fine, but let's cut the rope before the T drags the LGB down with them into this Public Relations shitstorm. We can't assume that Yaniv will be the last case like this.
I really love your comments.
you havent met a trans person until '92 cuz only 0.04% of the population is trans, and until that time roughly, trans people were strongly judged, so many of them were either incognito or presenting as their agab.
Your comment has been removed due to:
3. Civility / Dehumanizing Language
Racism, homophobia, slurs, and otherwise derogatory comments are not allowed. These include, but are not limited to: faggot, feminazi, gaping wound, man-hater, TERF, TIM/TIF, tranny, trap, troon.
Quoting someone else, referring to yourself, or discussing the usage is okay. Forcing that label onto others is not.
If you edit your comment to remove the offending phrase, or you feel this removal was performed in-error, please let the subreddit Moderators know by sending ModMail so your comment may be re-approved.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
Ok. I'm letting this post stand FOR NOW, because you seem to be genuinely seeking answers, but I am keeping an eye on this thread and your account. Any cross-posting or attempts to rile a brigade against us from other subs will result in your immediate ban.
Julian down below has covered the main gist of why we as LGB individuals feel we need to be separated from the TRM.
Simply sick of heterosexuals claiming to be gay and homosexuals claiming to be straight. It's homophobic.
I want to offer support and solidaritary to lesbians as they are in the most danger at the minute (heterosexual men invading their spaces claiming to be lesbians and sexually harrassing and assaulting them.)
But I think there is a rthreat to gay men too in the form of erasure.
I have a whole other bunch of issues with the trans community, especially the utter crap they are pushing on kids, but the above reasons are why I'm subbed to this particular subreddit.
Those are a issues I take with the trans community as well. I believe children should grow into themselves. No need to have them transition so early on when everyone knows nothing on this planet is more confused than a adolescent boy or girl.
I see the threat of the identity politics being misused, I pray no one gets hurt from it. I do want people to feel safe in their spaces as well. Thanks for sharing 🙏🏼
You're welcome. Thankyou for being civil.
People, or more exactly women, have already been hurt from it, and by hurt I mean harrassed, raped, beaten and killed. That's without counting the number of children, especially LGB, who have been hurt too.
We're seeing an increase in detransitioners and most are pissed so let's see how that plays out.
From my experience, the cases of kids being pushed to transition are INCREDIBLY rare. In a local trans group I attend for 11-18 year olds, I can say that not one of them has been pushed (and they’re all transmed too)
A transgender meet-up group for kids as young as 11 isn't pushing transition?
Yeah, ok.
And you wonder why people call it a cult?
None of them are being pushed. It’s literally just a youth group for people who feel similar. Like most youth groups that have a target demographic.
Then why call it a "trans group"?
I will answer you from my perspective if you are really willing to hear someone out. We do not hate trans people, we do not want LGBT exist together as it does now because of many reasons:
Honestly at this point, the trans movement uses lgb to hide, although we do not have much in common besides being marginalized/attacked/you name it. LGB and T are far from the same. A gay person does not look at the mirror and has distress over their body for being gay. Our distress comes from society. Trans’ people’s discomfort does of course also come from society, but gender dysphoria is stress coming from within. It’s a completely different thing.
When we are labeled gay, we fuck/date/marry gay people. When you are trans, you undergo HRT, surgeries, can get infertile, etc. It’s a shitload of invasive things for your body for it not to be explored properly. By T being part of LGB you can use a very powerful bigotry card, especially when you convince gay people they should care about trans people more than average person because they are gay. We should care about people and things because we are human. We don’t owe trans people an immediate acceptance of everything they do and stand for because we are mixed together in an alphabet soup.
And further, we should be able to voice concern over things that worry us without being casted out of gay/lesbian spaces.
With that said, I do not hate anyone, I am just concerned.
I’ll agree that people being too ban happy and such regarding trans stuff is too stupid. People are allowed concerns.
P.S. from my experience, most trans people I’ve met are transmed (need dysphoria to transition). That includes every trans kid I’ve seen
Definitely. I am pretty sure the popular trans opinions on reddit are not a representative example. The three trans women I know personally (and who are openly non-op) consider their girlfriends bi/pan and think trans women in female sport events is an insane idea. I have nothing but good real life experience with trans people, and a lot of very negative experiences online.
The transgender community isn't a monolith. I like parts of it and dislike others. The people that I dislike are those who insist trans women are actual biological females who were born female and should be treated as female from the moment they identify as such. They should therefore be put in women's prisons, join women's sports etc. The ones who insist that non trans lesbians must not have a preference for other non trans lesbians.
Luckily, most trans people i know are actually nice, reasonable people who are just trying to live their lives. I don't mind being part of the LGBT, but I'd also like to be allowed to talk about LGB--same sex attraction and how it affects our lives--without being accused of not centring trans people.
i don't. i just think that gender and sexuality are different enough to be separate movements and would flourish on their own.
It told me I was a bigot for being a lesbian,
then it wanted me to watch naked men undress,
then it literally started attacking people who are lesbian (and allies)
Then it removes rules that prevented pedophilia and sexual harassment
Then it brainwashed a friend.
My issue is this: Over the last few years, the trans movement has been more and more and more about people - usually men - deciding they want to be women, but only a very specific, highly stereotypical kind of woman (big boobs, slapped with loads of make up, uwuw preshus princess women).
You've then got stuff like Mermaids and Jazz Jennings - boys who presented as iffeminate as children and who would have most likely grown up to be gay males - being pushed down the route of being trans because seemingly, being gay is horrifying to their parents.
You've then got the nonbinary crowd who think not rigidly adhering to gender stereotypes makes them speshul snowflakes and some nonexistant speshul super secret gender, demanding we all call them bizarre "LOOK AT MEEE!!!" pronouns.
On top of that there is the telling lesbians they must have sex with men with lady dicks, and that they are wrong and disgusting for not wanting to.
Being trans involves serious, life altering surgeries and meds for the rest of your life. Like it or not, some of us don't want to get involved with people with a complicated medical history, and some people want partners with whom they can procreate. It is not wrong, it is not shameful, but people who do want these things are made out to be literally Hitler.
You've then got the Yaniv thing going on - something we were repeatedly told would never happen (a man pretending to be a woman in order to gain access to women's spaces, and a man with pedophilic tendencies at that) and if it did the trans community would self police and deal with it. It's happened and guess what? The trans community is dropping him like a flaming turd, telling us "oh no, she's not REALLY trans", when all we've had the last few years is "identifying as a woman means you are a woman!!!"
Do I think all trans people are evil and awful and need to be killed? Hell no. I know a load and the majority are bloody wonderful. My life, and the world as a whole is better for some of these people being in it, but that's not because of their genitals. It's because of who they are as people.
I do however think the trans community as a whole is deluded, bigoted, rigidly enforces sexist, harmful stereotypes, and is too far up it's own backside to see that. But I don't blame individual trans people for that any more than I blame the clerk at my bank for the mediocre rate on my savings account.
I also do think dysphoria is a mental condition and should not be treated with surgery and castration and meds which have awful side effects. We tried treating mental conditions with lobotomies and look how that worked out.
Sorry if this comes across as blunt but I really suck at explaining myself.