ThrowMeAway2879` · July 29, 2019, 8:57 a.m. · 2 replies
Posting on a throwaway since I don’t want to be banned from other subreddits with my main.
This was a peak trans moment for me a few weeks back that had me going "WTF?“. Just the highlights:
Passes "maybe 50 %“ of the time. (So: Not at all and certainly not to a group of gay men.)
Is surprised that he feels like a third wheel at a private gay party. (By his own admission guys were cordial and polite to him, but apparently they should’ve been more "bro-ey“?)
He is even more surprised that the other guys were only flirting with each other and not (pre-op and barely-on-T) him.
And the kicker: Friend invites him to stay over and then he feels "taunted“ because the three gay (!) guys have a threesome in the other room and he resents (!!) them for not including (!!) him in the 'event‘ (!!!).
Okay, admittedly this is someone just venting his feelings and feelings aren’t rational, but I am still amazed at the sheer denial of reality and the galling sense of entitlement. I honestly wondered for a bit whether this might be a troll and half expected someone to call him out, but of the few comments the post received, none were critical of the content, but instead re-enforced his belief that what happened was transphobic and that his friend had messed up and he should talk to him about it. (Guess who is not invited to the next party?)
JulienMayfair · July 29, 2019, 10:19 a.m. · 1 reply
This story strikes me as sad more than anything else. We've probably all been this person at some point in our lives, ending up at a party where, for some reason, we don't fit in and feel left out. It sounds to me like a hard lesson in the reality of being a gay trans man when you don't have the equipment that so many gay men are focused on.
The truth is that the other guys at the party were just being themselves. It was the trans guy who pretty obviously didn't fit in, but he's trying, as you say, to make it their fault.
ThrowMeAway2879` · July 29, 2019, 10:36 a.m. · 1 reply
I get what you are saying - that feeling of being the third wheel is never fun and weird dynamics can develop at a party where one guy ends up being the odd one out. But in the end, my sympathy for that situation doesn't manage to outweigh the annoyance at how he talks about the others at the party and, most importantly, the expectations he places on everyone else. That underlying sense of "But I SAID I am not a girl, why won't you flirt with me?".
Instead of accepting that, maybe, just maybe, he is not yet at a point where he can be "one of the boys" - if ever, he gets mad at his friend scoring a threesome. We feel what we feel, but sometimes we also need to filter out the irrational feelings and not voice them, not even on Internet forums, I think.
The fact that none of the comments gave him a much needed dose of reality did certainly color my perception of the post though.
JulienMayfair · July 29, 2019, 10:43 a.m. · 2 replies
I actually looked up the post and the responses, and some of the responses were reasonable.
What I'm imagining is the reverse -- if it had been a transwoman at a party for lesbians. I'm sure that would have been a full-on ragefest about how all those women were horrible t*rfs and how the poster needed to take revenge on them to teach them a lesson.
ThrowMeAway2879` · July 29, 2019, 10:54 a.m.
Oh, I don't doubt that the gender-reversed version on a MTF-reddit would have been an absolute cesspit with way, way more replies.
SunflowerDevyl · July 29, 2019, 5:19 p.m. · 1 reply
It definitely would have been a completely different response if this was a trans woman, which to me says a lot in how males and females are socialized differently.
darkestgradient · Aug. 24, 2019, 1:48 a.m.
Trans women tend to feel pretty entitled to lesbians as well.
tables8121 · Aug. 4, 2019, 11:11 p.m.
The concept of “passing” as a gay man is an insult to actual gay men. Being homosexual is distinctly difficult and the author of that post is being no less patronizing than it would be for a person of one ethnicity to try to “pass” as another. Rachel Dolezol comes to immediate mind.
MyLongestJourney` · July 29, 2019, 9:16 a.m. · 1 reply
Gay men like male bodies.Oh,the horror!
NightCasterZ · July 29, 2019, 10:08 a.m. · 1 reply
I mean not necessarily. I know cis gay men who would happily date a trans man, and that doesn’t make them not gay
MyLongestJourney` · July 29, 2019, 10:10 a.m. · 1 reply
Homosexual males like male bodies.They do not like female bodies.
NightCasterZ · July 29, 2019, 10:14 a.m. · 2 replies
Cis gay men can like gay trans men, doesn’t make em less gay.
dedicatedgc · July 29, 2019, 10:41 a.m. · 1 reply
It does. Gay means homosexual. Homosexuals like the same sex.
NightCasterZ · July 29, 2019, 10:42 a.m. · 1 reply
Not really. I know plenty of gay men who’d date trans men but not trans women or cis women. Because they’re gay
MyLongestJourney` · July 29, 2019, 10:56 a.m. · 1 reply
How is the weather in the parallel universe earth you inhabit?
NightCasterZ · July 29, 2019, 11:01 a.m.
Sadly, not a parallel universe. Same one as you.
In England however, it is surprisingly sunny
NYCradfem · July 29, 2019, 10:14 a.m.
I explicitly stated that I am NOT a girl.”
No matter how she slices it, she is female and one cannot identify out of biology. And it’s dumb to think gay men would want to fuck her when they are HOMOsexuals. Not to mention it puts strain on her friendships to demand they include her in their sex romps.
anonymous0throwaway · July 29, 2019, 10:27 a.m.
This just makes me feel sad tbh.
It seems to me that a lot of trans people don't completely understand what it means to "transition" and/or "pass." It's much more than physical appearance, there are certain gendered behavioral rules at play.
First thing that comes to my mind in this situation would be the thought that it would be appropriate to send a friend an angry text message and complain abput transphobia and being left out. Men don't really do that kind of thing. That's just a shortcut to not ever being invited to the party again.
It would be more appropriate to be grateful for the invitation and ask for pointers on how to be more physically playful. The thing this person seems to be missing is the fact that cis males are raised and socialized on rough and tumble play from birth, so this sort of stuff just comes naturally to them.
The sex stuff is a different story and a much more touchy issue, no pun intended. It should be understood that not everyone is willing to get intimate with a trans person.
pococomun · July 29, 2019, 10:34 a.m.
The "cis gay men are privileged bigots" movement is undoubtedly fuelled by trans resentment. The queers hate us because our sexuality does not accommodate the gender fantasies of trans-identified women.
(comment deleted or removed) · 2 replies
AutoModeratorHuman-Exclusionary Radical Overlord · July 29, 2019, 5:09 p.m.
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Regardless of whether you affirm their identity or deny it, you’re feeding their desire to transition.
dedicatedgc · July 29, 2019, 10:44 a.m. · 1 reply
Good lord, the incredible entitlement coming off this entire rant. She wants to send an angry letter to her friend because he and two other gay guys didn't have sex with her???? Jesus Christ. Even if they weren't gay, she's never entitled to sex.
StillHaveQuestions33 · July 29, 2019, 11:01 a.m. · 1 reply
Exactly this - she wants people to be walking on eggshells. You're not entitled to sex, regardless of your identity.
The correct response is to high-five your friend. Maybe as the T and surgery kick in you'll get laid. Maybe there'll be a bi guy who's up for it.
Can you imagine if she'd joined? Pre-op, non-passing and dysphoric about being touched?
sadievenhavetodothis · July 31, 2019, 12:06 a.m. · 1 reply
Can you imagine is she was post-op and didn’t tell anybody.
Picture it...
You have a bunch of guys over. Everything is going well. The vibe is great, the party is going down.
Later that night giggles ensue. The lights are dimmed and people start taking off their clothes. Eventually one guy reaches down and starts handling the mess she calls a penis.
Makes a weird noise, somebodies distraught and the lights come on.
You see this person with odd, weird plastic surgery scars on their chest, and the oddest, most fucked up penis you’ve ever seen. That same person who was just sucking you off.
The Who mood is killed and this person starts labeling everyone as transphobic for not wanting to fuck them.
I can tell you I’d never go to that house/apartment again. And the person who invited them would have some explaining to do. I wouldn’t hold it against them immediately because they might not have known.
darkestgradient · Aug. 24, 2019, 1:45 a.m.
I saw a trans FTM penis on r/neovaginadisasters yesterday and felt like that patient should sue.
CallaAETHIOPICA · July 29, 2019, 10:59 a.m. · 2 replies
Why does it seem like a large amount of trans people feel incredibly entitled to sex with “cis” people. Hell, it seems like a lot of them just feel entitled in general. It’s crazy to see.
JulienMayfair · July 29, 2019, 3:56 p.m. · 1 reply
I think it has to do with the idea of authenticity. Despite the frequent TWAW/TMAM declarations, I think there's still a lot of self-doubt about their own authenticity, and if they can get validation from someone they see as authentic, then it gives them a boost. Of course, this is also perilously close to how narcissists choose people from whom they source "narcissistic supply." Narcissists don't want ego validation from just anyone; it helps if they see you as someone other people look up to or if you're a recognized expert in your field.
In that sense, it seems like the whole reason this person went to this party was to try to elicit some sort of validation from gay men, and she got upset when that didn't happen.
sadievenhavetodothis · July 31, 2019, 12:27 a.m.
This calls back to one of the arguments they make. Something a long the lines of how gender doesn’t matter because it’s a social construct, and my retort was... if it doesn’t matter and is a social construct, then why the whole transition at all? If you are really “not a girl”, as you so easily explain, then why do you need that validation at all?
It’s like this stupid duality where they both have to deny biology, sex and gender. But at the same time be validated as if they are that biology, sex and gender.
It’s like, if what you are saying is true, then why do you feel dysphoric? It just boggles me the mental gymnastics that they not only go through, but they demand others to do the same.
With women who transition to become gay men, I suspect it's because they were "fag hags" before they transitioned and for some reason or other they deluded themselves into thinking gay men would finally fuck them if they identified as male. So very very delusional.
griffxx · Aug. 3, 2019, 9:59 a.m.
Nope. They start young on Tumblr. Already feel disconnected from their female bodies. This could be rooted in a variety of reasons. The vast majority of them these feelings occur during their female puberty. So if they hate "girl stuff" they might be Trans dudes.
So carry these ideas through for girls who always have had crushes on boys. And they share this phenomenon with Trans women who call themselves lesbians: do I like this boy or do I want to be this boy; am l attracted to this Women or do I want to be her.
And just like their Trans Lesbian counterparts, they fetishizes the object of their affection. For Trans Lesbians, even before they ever thought about transitioning they already fetishized the concept of Lesbianism, lesbian couples, lesbian porn etc. Same with teenage Gay Trans men. They create these echo chambers M|M Japanese Manga fandom, write M|M fiction and fantasize about their first boyfriends. So this starts earlier for them.
tables8121 · Aug. 4, 2019, 11:05 p.m. · 1 reply
No one “transitions” to “become” a gay man. That’s as insultingly shallow as the term “turn gay.”
We are homosexual. It’s what we are. Not who we are.
Chunkeeguy Unapologetic Genital Fetishist · Aug. 4, 2019, 11:38 p.m.
Woman who is obsessed with gay men, usually wanting to fuck them.
280183 · Nov. 16, 2019, 7:30 p.m.
Thanks
Vileplume1990` · July 29, 2019, 12:08 p.m.
Narcissistic bullshit. This is just like those two MTF “influencers” that got turned away from a party a few weeks ago. This is why trans activism is toxic! You can virtue signal all you want, cater to pronouns, but a spade is still a spade.
kasurimethi · July 29, 2019, 12:26 p.m.
Grindr (haven’t had any luck there)
Cannot for the life of me imagine why...
spider_party · July 29, 2019, 12:33 p.m.
Notice how she mentions that she thinks the other guys are just confused or wouldn't understand if she tried to explain her situation to them. It couldn't possibly be that they know very well she's a woman and aren't interested in her, no, those silly gays are just too ignorant and stupid to truly understand that she's actually a gay man and they're just nasty bigots.
wisetrash · July 29, 2019, 2:09 p.m.
Dude come on... I get it how that could suck but sweetheart, they're gay men. What did you expect if you're female?
Even as much as you hate it, you are. Hence the wanting to _transition_ part.
BoobDoodles` · July 29, 2019, 4:57 p.m.
Like a dog barking, "I am not a dog."
mehefin · July 29, 2019, 5:50 p.m. · 2 replies
This is like a fucking spoof - a joke! How can this trans person be so damned deluded and self-centred? She is just self-obsessed and thinks everyone should centre her and her feelings, and doesn’t seem to understand that other people have their own wants and needs, and just because she really wants something doesn’t mean she’ll get it. Even disregarding the trans part, she seems like she’d be an awful, fragile, difficult person to be around.
dirtroadblues · July 29, 2019, 9:09 p.m.
Being awful, fragile, and difficult is the essence of transgenderism, my friend.
darkestgradient · Aug. 24, 2019, 1:50 a.m.
This kind of thinking is very common. I 100% believe it’s real.
totalrando9 · July 29, 2019, 7:06 p.m. · 1 reply
"It seemed like all they talked about was dicks..."
She doesn't know gay men very well, if she's surprised by this.
Tangleofsnakes` · July 29, 2019, 7:26 p.m. · 1 reply
My same thought. Men in general aren't shy at talking about dicks.
tables8121 · Aug. 4, 2019, 11:14 p.m.
It’s a guy thing. She wouldn’t understand and clearly doesn’t.
hejqkocesns · July 29, 2019, 7:08 p.m. · 1 reply
'It seemed as though all the talked about was dicks' yeah because they're gay men. Actual gay men. I feel bad for those guys having to deal with that awkward situation. It's not transphobia, they accepted her but they're still gay. I hate how trans people are trying to insert in gay men/womens spaces.
dirtroadblues · July 29, 2019, 9:17 p.m. · 1 reply
A lot of trans ppl are come from sheltered backgrounds, or they are just socially challenged misfits, which is what makes them vulnerable to trans ideology in the first place. They get sold a lie that their problems fitting in and understanding social cues are all due to dysphoria, and that once they transition they’ll be well adjusted and socially at ease. But really transitioning makes socializing WAY harder. Not to mention dating.
GumballtheGorilla · July 30, 2019, 4:30 a.m.
From the studies I've seen, dating is next to impossible and gender identity didn't negate a person's sexuality.
This is so unsettling. Her feeling entitled to gay men’s bodies, it’s disgusting.
Tabitha88888888 · July 30, 2019, 2:47 a.m.
So it happens to the FTM's too.
What's fascinating is how the MTF and FTM deal with their situation. I mean I know somebody will want to throw a shoe at me for saying, but I'd swear the FTM deal with their problems like women. And the MTF like men.
Haa! Throw the other shoe you missed me!
Medina666 · July 30, 2019, 10:22 a.m. · 1 reply
Honestly, this is just a guy venting about his feelings at that party. No, it was not transphobia but just an awkward situation for both him and the other men that were there. I'm not trans but I'm very socially awkward and I've been in situations were I just felt left out even though everyone was nice to me. It happens. It's not just a trans issue. And no his friend doesn't 'owe' him sex. The thing that I don't understand is why you would invite 3 people to stay over and only fuck 2 of them? I mean if you knew you didn't want to fuck the trans guy then why invite him to stay the night? So he can listen to you? I mean if my friend invited me to stay the night and loudly started fucking someone in the other room, I'd be pissed too.
Also I think there is a point to be made about sexuality and gender identity being separate issues. And yes there are a lot of things we need to work on to make trans people feel welcome but also not make cis people feel uncomfortable at the same time. But I think it is extremely disrespectful to deliberately call someone who hasn't done anything by the wrong pronoun. I mean yes he said that he felt uncomfortable with everybody talking about dicks and other things but in the end he didn't tell them to stop. He wasn't acting like he can control what people talk about or not. And some comments on here are just unnecessarily rude.
I think being disrespectful like that isn't gonna get you anywere because if you are calling people by the wrong pronoun then people are gonna look at you and think you're just a bunch of transphobes that have nothing better to do than make fun of people they don't understand and nobody is gonna listen to actual issues that you want the trans community to work on.
tables8121 · July 30, 2019, 4:57 p.m. · 1 reply
Well, she’s not a guy, so there’s that for starters.
Medina666 · July 30, 2019, 5:45 p.m.
Comments like this is exactly what I mean. How do you expect to be taken serously or respected if you don't do that for others?
vaulted_skies · July 30, 2019, 5:39 p.m.
Gross. Why do they feel entitled to male bodies like this?
Mad_Fem_Lesbian · July 30, 2019, 8:13 p.m.
The annoyance I felt from reading this. This is 100% the "I'm not like other girls" type that I just can't put up with anymore. These men were not rude and they didn't make her feel unsafe, etc. According to her, their biggest sin was not wanting to fuck her. Grow the fuck up.
GenderMuffin · July 30, 2019, 8:25 p.m.
Honestly, this just makes me roll my eyes as someone who is on the border of "femme" and "chapstick" in terms of physical presentation, but personality-wise is one of the butchest people I know: because there is no way that anyone other than a really sheltered, really spoiled, really feminine person would not understand that she's basically reacting as women/females do when confronted with the realities of male sexuality.
They are guys, and guys are just not that into feelings or politeness or intellectualizing things when it comes to sex, and that is something that is very, very, very different from women. No matter whether this term is cast in "chivalrous", patronizing terms (delicate and virtuous women, dastardly men), more outright vile misogyny (see the incel/4chan "a slut is a woman who will sleep with anyone but you", "Stacy", etc), or the more extreme versions of GC/radical feminism (all sex is rape, all men are into rape, porn instantly makes men into dickwolves; women are gentle earth mothers), no matter where you are on the political spectrum, people recognize that there is a damn difference between populations, and that it's one that is really significant because any overlap tends to be between extreme outliers of the population.
Like, not to reduce gay men down to the worst stereotypes about them, and really "gay men are hypersexual" is just a homophobic take on the real truth, which is "most men would be hypersexual if given the opportunity, straight men just don't get the same opportunities for the most part", but seriously: it's a sex party full of gay men, who are either presumably not partnered or who have partners who are cool with them going to sex parties. Who the fuck would ever seriously think a room full of gay men at a sex party are just more "more comfortable with each other because they know each other" without basically literally never having been close to a dude? This has to be someone raised on slash fanfiction and yaoi that's full of men written as/by adolescent girls. Like... it's a sex party, honey.
Someone that clueless/naive about why the two sexes have the stereotypes they have should not in any way be considered competent to go on hormones. I'm not saying it's necessarily autism, because sheltering people does a lot and society really does lie to young women constantly, but just... w h a t t h e f u c k. It's a sex party.
smolbur · July 30, 2019, 9:29 p.m.
Normally I'd find this sort of thing offensive, but it was so naive I couldn't help but laugh from begining to end and almost feel sorry for the girl writing it. How old is she?
This bit absolutely slayed me:
"A lot of the conversation revolved around sex.....it seemed all they talked about was dicks"
What does she think a gay man is? Just anyone in a vest top with short hair?
Good God, how do people this unworldly function?
MalibuGuy17 · July 30, 2019, 11:23 p.m. · 1 reply
Regardless of genitalia, when I am attracted to someone as a gay man I am attracted to the experiences that person has had growing up as a gay man. A trans person has markedly different experiences as a gay man, and that is not something I connect with. Looking for emotional intimacy involves me looking for someone I can relate to and go through the challenges of being gay with. The trans experience is very different and not necessarily something I am looking for. I am sure much of the dismissal of trans men by the gay men has to do with the fact that they are attracted to people similar to themselves.
griffxx · Aug. 3, 2019, 11:26 a.m. · 1 reply
Same with lesbians. It's not just "genitals" ! There are histories to peoples bodies and psychological/emotional/intellectual development.
These opposite sex people claiming to be L&Gs had fundamentally different childhoods, teenage-hoods, puberties and young adulthoods.
I really don't understand what it means to to "FEEL like a woman or man.
tables8121 · Aug. 4, 2019, 10:58 p.m. · 1 reply
You’re both correct, but even on the level of genitals, there’s a connection of relating to having the actual same genital ones whole life. And a real one, not some approximate. Real genitalia is part of a complex system, for example a penis is part of other things for which it operates synergistically. For example, a gay man can completely relate to and intimate with another man’s penis due to the sum of all the parts as opposed to a skin tube with a pump. Ffs sake with this shit already.
griffxx · Aug. 5, 2019, 10:44 a.m.
This is exactly right. They process the LGs rejecting them as transphobia. It's all because they're TRANS. It's because they are the opposite sex.
Ann_Fetamine` · July 31, 2019, 2:13 a.m.
So let me get this straight...pardon the expression: Gay males at a sex party were acting "bro-ey" and talking about (gasp!) DICKS?! What's next? Lesbians admiring the female form & talking about vaginas?
:
The level of entitlement & narcissism here is just beyond my comprehension. When you're the minority in the room, which I have been many times, you adapt to what the majority is doing/talking about or you leave. Throwing a full-blown tantrum about lack of "inclusion" is not an option, especially when it's a sex party. Nobody owes you their attraction, creep.
Interesting to see that gay men are encountering this madness too. I thought it was just us lesbians, but nope. Clown world, all of it.
DanieIIe- · July 31, 2019, 11:06 a.m.
They weren't being hostile to me, just cordial and polite
OH, THE HORROR!!
ParasympatheticBear · Aug. 1, 2019, 9:38 a.m. · 1 reply
This happens to cis gay men too. Welcome to gay life
tables8121 · Aug. 4, 2019, 10:52 p.m. · 1 reply
There’s only gay men. No such thing as “the other side of” being a gay man. Male homosexual.
ParasympatheticBear · Aug. 5, 2019, 12:40 a.m.
:) idk. It’s confusing
Esoteric_Anion · Aug. 2, 2019, 10:47 a.m.
The level of entitlement in some of these trans people is honestly ridiculous, to the point that they think them being trans should overrule any natural desire an LGB person might have.
Acesfire7 · Aug. 8, 2019, 6:42 p.m.
This is hilariously rediculous
PassionateIntensity · Aug. 9, 2019, 3:38 p.m. · 1 reply
When a man rejects a transman, she writes an angry letter. When a woman rejects a transwoman, he attacks 3 strangers with an axe. 🤔
darkestgradient · Aug. 24, 2019, 1:52 a.m.
Holy shit I saw that story. And then he detransitions while in a women’s prison.
Snapshots:
1. FTM feels taunted by not being invi... - archive.org
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Posting on a throwaway since I don’t want to be banned from other subreddits with my main.
This was a peak trans moment for me a few weeks back that had me going "WTF?“. Just the highlights:
Okay, admittedly this is someone just venting his feelings and feelings aren’t rational, but I am still amazed at the sheer denial of reality and the galling sense of entitlement. I honestly wondered for a bit whether this might be a troll and half expected someone to call him out, but of the few comments the post received, none were critical of the content, but instead re-enforced his belief that what happened was transphobic and that his friend had messed up and he should talk to him about it. (Guess who is not invited to the next party?)
This story strikes me as sad more than anything else. We've probably all been this person at some point in our lives, ending up at a party where, for some reason, we don't fit in and feel left out. It sounds to me like a hard lesson in the reality of being a gay trans man when you don't have the equipment that so many gay men are focused on.
The truth is that the other guys at the party were just being themselves. It was the trans guy who pretty obviously didn't fit in, but he's trying, as you say, to make it their fault.
I get what you are saying - that feeling of being the third wheel is never fun and weird dynamics can develop at a party where one guy ends up being the odd one out. But in the end, my sympathy for that situation doesn't manage to outweigh the annoyance at how he talks about the others at the party and, most importantly, the expectations he places on everyone else. That underlying sense of "But I SAID I am not a girl, why won't you flirt with me?".
Instead of accepting that, maybe, just maybe, he is not yet at a point where he can be "one of the boys" - if ever, he gets mad at his friend scoring a threesome. We feel what we feel, but sometimes we also need to filter out the irrational feelings and not voice them, not even on Internet forums, I think.
The fact that none of the comments gave him a much needed dose of reality did certainly color my perception of the post though.
I actually looked up the post and the responses, and some of the responses were reasonable.
What I'm imagining is the reverse -- if it had been a transwoman at a party for lesbians. I'm sure that would have been a full-on ragefest about how all those women were horrible t*rfs and how the poster needed to take revenge on them to teach them a lesson.
Oh, I don't doubt that the gender-reversed version on a MTF-reddit would have been an absolute cesspit with way, way more replies.
It definitely would have been a completely different response if this was a trans woman, which to me says a lot in how males and females are socialized differently.
Trans women tend to feel pretty entitled to lesbians as well.
The concept of “passing” as a gay man is an insult to actual gay men. Being homosexual is distinctly difficult and the author of that post is being no less patronizing than it would be for a person of one ethnicity to try to “pass” as another. Rachel Dolezol comes to immediate mind.
Gay men like male bodies.Oh,the horror!
I mean not necessarily. I know cis gay men who would happily date a trans man, and that doesn’t make them not gay
Homosexual males like male bodies.They do not like female bodies.
Cis gay men can like gay trans men, doesn’t make em less gay.
It does. Gay means homosexual. Homosexuals like the same sex.
Not really. I know plenty of gay men who’d date trans men but not trans women or cis women. Because they’re gay
How is the weather in the parallel universe earth you inhabit?
Sadly, not a parallel universe. Same one as you.
In England however, it is surprisingly sunny
This just makes me feel sad tbh.
It seems to me that a lot of trans people don't completely understand what it means to "transition" and/or "pass." It's much more than physical appearance, there are certain gendered behavioral rules at play.
First thing that comes to my mind in this situation would be the thought that it would be appropriate to send a friend an angry text message and complain abput transphobia and being left out. Men don't really do that kind of thing. That's just a shortcut to not ever being invited to the party again.
It would be more appropriate to be grateful for the invitation and ask for pointers on how to be more physically playful. The thing this person seems to be missing is the fact that cis males are raised and socialized on rough and tumble play from birth, so this sort of stuff just comes naturally to them.
The sex stuff is a different story and a much more touchy issue, no pun intended. It should be understood that not everyone is willing to get intimate with a trans person.
The "cis gay men are privileged bigots" movement is undoubtedly fuelled by trans resentment. The queers hate us because our sexuality does not accommodate the gender fantasies of trans-identified women.
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Regardless of whether you affirm their identity or deny it, you’re feeding their desire to transition.
Good lord, the incredible entitlement coming off this entire rant. She wants to send an angry letter to her friend because he and two other gay guys didn't have sex with her???? Jesus Christ. Even if they weren't gay, she's never entitled to sex.
Exactly this - she wants people to be walking on eggshells. You're not entitled to sex, regardless of your identity.
The correct response is to high-five your friend. Maybe as the T and surgery kick in you'll get laid. Maybe there'll be a bi guy who's up for it.
Can you imagine if she'd joined? Pre-op, non-passing and dysphoric about being touched?
Can you imagine is she was post-op and didn’t tell anybody.
Picture it...
You have a bunch of guys over. Everything is going well. The vibe is great, the party is going down.
Later that night giggles ensue. The lights are dimmed and people start taking off their clothes. Eventually one guy reaches down and starts handling the mess she calls a penis.
Makes a weird noise, somebodies distraught and the lights come on.
You see this person with odd, weird plastic surgery scars on their chest, and the oddest, most fucked up penis you’ve ever seen. That same person who was just sucking you off.
The Who mood is killed and this person starts labeling everyone as transphobic for not wanting to fuck them.
I can tell you I’d never go to that house/apartment again. And the person who invited them would have some explaining to do. I wouldn’t hold it against them immediately because they might not have known.
I saw a trans FTM penis on r/neovaginadisasters yesterday and felt like that patient should sue.
Why does it seem like a large amount of trans people feel incredibly entitled to sex with “cis” people. Hell, it seems like a lot of them just feel entitled in general. It’s crazy to see.
I think it has to do with the idea of authenticity. Despite the frequent TWAW/TMAM declarations, I think there's still a lot of self-doubt about their own authenticity, and if they can get validation from someone they see as authentic, then it gives them a boost. Of course, this is also perilously close to how narcissists choose people from whom they source "narcissistic supply." Narcissists don't want ego validation from just anyone; it helps if they see you as someone other people look up to or if you're a recognized expert in your field.
In that sense, it seems like the whole reason this person went to this party was to try to elicit some sort of validation from gay men, and she got upset when that didn't happen.
This calls back to one of the arguments they make. Something a long the lines of how gender doesn’t matter because it’s a social construct, and my retort was... if it doesn’t matter and is a social construct, then why the whole transition at all? If you are really “not a girl”, as you so easily explain, then why do you need that validation at all?
It’s like this stupid duality where they both have to deny biology, sex and gender. But at the same time be validated as if they are that biology, sex and gender.
It’s like, if what you are saying is true, then why do you feel dysphoric? It just boggles me the mental gymnastics that they not only go through, but they demand others to do the same.
With women who transition to become gay men, I suspect it's because they were "fag hags" before they transitioned and for some reason or other they deluded themselves into thinking gay men would finally fuck them if they identified as male. So very very delusional.
Nope. They start young on Tumblr. Already feel disconnected from their female bodies. This could be rooted in a variety of reasons. The vast majority of them these feelings occur during their female puberty. So if they hate "girl stuff" they might be Trans dudes.
So carry these ideas through for girls who always have had crushes on boys. And they share this phenomenon with Trans women who call themselves lesbians: do I like this boy or do I want to be this boy; am l attracted to this Women or do I want to be her.
And just like their Trans Lesbian counterparts, they fetishizes the object of their affection. For Trans Lesbians, even before they ever thought about transitioning they already fetishized the concept of Lesbianism, lesbian couples, lesbian porn etc. Same with teenage Gay Trans men. They create these echo chambers M|M Japanese Manga fandom, write M|M fiction and fantasize about their first boyfriends. So this starts earlier for them.
No one “transitions” to “become” a gay man. That’s as insultingly shallow as the term “turn gay.”
We are homosexual. It’s what we are. Not who we are.
Of course but THEY think they do.
What is a fag hag?
Woman who is obsessed with gay men, usually wanting to fuck them.
Thanks
Narcissistic bullshit. This is just like those two MTF “influencers” that got turned away from a party a few weeks ago. This is why trans activism is toxic! You can virtue signal all you want, cater to pronouns, but a spade is still a spade.
Cannot for the life of me imagine why...
Notice how she mentions that she thinks the other guys are just confused or wouldn't understand if she tried to explain her situation to them. It couldn't possibly be that they know very well she's a woman and aren't interested in her, no, those silly gays are just too ignorant and stupid to truly understand that she's actually a gay man and they're just nasty bigots.
Dude come on... I get it how that could suck but sweetheart, they're gay men. What did you expect if you're female?
Even as much as you hate it, you are. Hence the wanting to _transition_ part.
Like a dog barking, "I am not a dog."
This is like a fucking spoof - a joke! How can this trans person be so damned deluded and self-centred? She is just self-obsessed and thinks everyone should centre her and her feelings, and doesn’t seem to understand that other people have their own wants and needs, and just because she really wants something doesn’t mean she’ll get it. Even disregarding the trans part, she seems like she’d be an awful, fragile, difficult person to be around.
Being awful, fragile, and difficult is the essence of transgenderism, my friend.
This kind of thinking is very common. I 100% believe it’s real.
"It seemed like all they talked about was dicks..."
She doesn't know gay men very well, if she's surprised by this.
My same thought. Men in general aren't shy at talking about dicks.
It’s a guy thing. She wouldn’t understand and clearly doesn’t.
'It seemed as though all the talked about was dicks' yeah because they're gay men. Actual gay men. I feel bad for those guys having to deal with that awkward situation. It's not transphobia, they accepted her but they're still gay. I hate how trans people are trying to insert in gay men/womens spaces.
A lot of trans ppl are come from sheltered backgrounds, or they are just socially challenged misfits, which is what makes them vulnerable to trans ideology in the first place. They get sold a lie that their problems fitting in and understanding social cues are all due to dysphoria, and that once they transition they’ll be well adjusted and socially at ease. But really transitioning makes socializing WAY harder. Not to mention dating.
From the studies I've seen, dating is next to impossible and gender identity didn't negate a person's sexuality.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0265407518779139?journalCode=spra
This is so unsettling. Her feeling entitled to gay men’s bodies, it’s disgusting.
So it happens to the FTM's too.
What's fascinating is how the MTF and FTM deal with their situation. I mean I know somebody will want to throw a shoe at me for saying, but I'd swear the FTM deal with their problems like women. And the MTF like men.
Haa! Throw the other shoe you missed me!
Honestly, this is just a guy venting about his feelings at that party. No, it was not transphobia but just an awkward situation for both him and the other men that were there. I'm not trans but I'm very socially awkward and I've been in situations were I just felt left out even though everyone was nice to me. It happens. It's not just a trans issue. And no his friend doesn't 'owe' him sex. The thing that I don't understand is why you would invite 3 people to stay over and only fuck 2 of them? I mean if you knew you didn't want to fuck the trans guy then why invite him to stay the night? So he can listen to you? I mean if my friend invited me to stay the night and loudly started fucking someone in the other room, I'd be pissed too.
Also I think there is a point to be made about sexuality and gender identity being separate issues. And yes there are a lot of things we need to work on to make trans people feel welcome but also not make cis people feel uncomfortable at the same time. But I think it is extremely disrespectful to deliberately call someone who hasn't done anything by the wrong pronoun. I mean yes he said that he felt uncomfortable with everybody talking about dicks and other things but in the end he didn't tell them to stop. He wasn't acting like he can control what people talk about or not. And some comments on here are just unnecessarily rude.
I think being disrespectful like that isn't gonna get you anywere because if you are calling people by the wrong pronoun then people are gonna look at you and think you're just a bunch of transphobes that have nothing better to do than make fun of people they don't understand and nobody is gonna listen to actual issues that you want the trans community to work on.
Well, she’s not a guy, so there’s that for starters.
Comments like this is exactly what I mean. How do you expect to be taken serously or respected if you don't do that for others?
Gross. Why do they feel entitled to male bodies like this?
The annoyance I felt from reading this. This is 100% the "I'm not like other girls" type that I just can't put up with anymore. These men were not rude and they didn't make her feel unsafe, etc. According to her, their biggest sin was not wanting to fuck her. Grow the fuck up.
Honestly, this just makes me roll my eyes as someone who is on the border of "femme" and "chapstick" in terms of physical presentation, but personality-wise is one of the butchest people I know: because there is no way that anyone other than a really sheltered, really spoiled, really feminine person would not understand that she's basically reacting as women/females do when confronted with the realities of male sexuality.
They are guys, and guys are just not that into feelings or politeness or intellectualizing things when it comes to sex, and that is something that is very, very, very different from women. No matter whether this term is cast in "chivalrous", patronizing terms (delicate and virtuous women, dastardly men), more outright vile misogyny (see the incel/4chan "a slut is a woman who will sleep with anyone but you", "Stacy", etc), or the more extreme versions of GC/radical feminism (all sex is rape, all men are into rape, porn instantly makes men into dickwolves; women are gentle earth mothers), no matter where you are on the political spectrum, people recognize that there is a damn difference between populations, and that it's one that is really significant because any overlap tends to be between extreme outliers of the population.
Like, not to reduce gay men down to the worst stereotypes about them, and really "gay men are hypersexual" is just a homophobic take on the real truth, which is "most men would be hypersexual if given the opportunity, straight men just don't get the same opportunities for the most part", but seriously: it's a sex party full of gay men, who are either presumably not partnered or who have partners who are cool with them going to sex parties. Who the fuck would ever seriously think a room full of gay men at a sex party are just more "more comfortable with each other because they know each other" without basically literally never having been close to a dude? This has to be someone raised on slash fanfiction and yaoi that's full of men written as/by adolescent girls. Like... it's a sex party, honey.
Someone that clueless/naive about why the two sexes have the stereotypes they have should not in any way be considered competent to go on hormones. I'm not saying it's necessarily autism, because sheltering people does a lot and society really does lie to young women constantly, but just... w h a t t h e f u c k. It's a sex party.
Normally I'd find this sort of thing offensive, but it was so naive I couldn't help but laugh from begining to end and almost feel sorry for the girl writing it. How old is she?
This bit absolutely slayed me:
"A lot of the conversation revolved around sex.....it seemed all they talked about was dicks"
What does she think a gay man is? Just anyone in a vest top with short hair?
Good God, how do people this unworldly function?
Regardless of genitalia, when I am attracted to someone as a gay man I am attracted to the experiences that person has had growing up as a gay man. A trans person has markedly different experiences as a gay man, and that is not something I connect with. Looking for emotional intimacy involves me looking for someone I can relate to and go through the challenges of being gay with. The trans experience is very different and not necessarily something I am looking for. I am sure much of the dismissal of trans men by the gay men has to do with the fact that they are attracted to people similar to themselves.
Same with lesbians. It's not just "genitals" ! There are histories to peoples bodies and psychological/emotional/intellectual development.
These opposite sex people claiming to be L&Gs had fundamentally different childhoods, teenage-hoods, puberties and young adulthoods.
I really don't understand what it means to to "FEEL like a woman or man.
You’re both correct, but even on the level of genitals, there’s a connection of relating to having the actual same genital ones whole life. And a real one, not some approximate. Real genitalia is part of a complex system, for example a penis is part of other things for which it operates synergistically. For example, a gay man can completely relate to and intimate with another man’s penis due to the sum of all the parts as opposed to a skin tube with a pump. Ffs sake with this shit already.
This is exactly right. They process the LGs rejecting them as transphobia. It's all because they're TRANS. It's because they are the opposite sex.
So let me get this straight...pardon the expression: Gay males at a sex party were acting "bro-ey" and talking about (gasp!) DICKS?! What's next? Lesbians admiring the female form & talking about vaginas?
:
The level of entitlement & narcissism here is just beyond my comprehension. When you're the minority in the room, which I have been many times, you adapt to what the majority is doing/talking about or you leave. Throwing a full-blown tantrum about lack of "inclusion" is not an option, especially when it's a sex party. Nobody owes you their attraction, creep.
Interesting to see that gay men are encountering this madness too. I thought it was just us lesbians, but nope. Clown world, all of it.
OH, THE HORROR!!
This happens to cis gay men too. Welcome to gay life
There’s only gay men. No such thing as “the other side of” being a gay man. Male homosexual.
:) idk. It’s confusing
The level of entitlement in some of these trans people is honestly ridiculous, to the point that they think them being trans should overrule any natural desire an LGB person might have.
This is hilariously rediculous
When a man rejects a transman, she writes an angry letter. When a woman rejects a transwoman, he attacks 3 strangers with an axe. 🤔
Holy shit I saw that story. And then he detransitions while in a women’s prison.