Is "flamboyancy" a choice?

Submitted July 9, 2020, 8:41 p.m. by fuuuuck_it_all

My cousin is gay and he's one of my favorite people in the family. When I was in grade/highschool, I remember seeing gay people in the hallways or on TV, and it seemed like they usually were talking in a high pitched, feminine voice (with that "gay" accent) or acting flamboyant.

My cousin isn't like that at all, he hunts, fishes, talks and dresses like any other straight guy. I asked him why gays usually act like that and he said he doesn't know. His boyfriend is the same way - he's into art and paints but acts like any other guy, I literally would not know they were gay if I randomly met them. We got into this long conversation about why that is and the conclusion we came to is that some people just want everyone to know they are gay and that it is a choice.

I remember this annoying kid in highschool who would just constantly tell everyone. He'd wear pink glittery stuff and scream his flamboyant voice every day. We were paired up for a project once and he kept telling me about how much he loves dick. It's just like what the fuck? I don't care if you are gay. But why does your ENTIRE identity have to revolve around that fact?

This is so common that gay people in movies/TV are constantly shown in this matter. I really liked Wallace's portrayal in Scott Pilgrim because he was just gay, he wasn't overtly flamboyant about it. It's just upsetting because there are people like my cousin who are gay but act completely normal and enjoy traditionally "masculine" activities, but I feel like your average joe doesn't even realize that because the only people they know are for sure gay are the ones being flamboyant as fuck about it.

I don't think I've met or seen a trans person online who wasn't extremely obnoxious like this. It almost seems like the trans community pushes this, like they think if you're gay then you should be extremely feminine and constantly alerting everyone about it. Like if you have a kid and he is gay then you risk the chance of the trans community sucking him in and convincing him he's a femboy who should wear pink dresses, even if that's just not his true self. I don't know.

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SALTY_EMO_LIZARDNASTY EDGY ANDROGYNOUS HOMO GENDER CRIMINAL™ · July 9, 2020, 8:54 p.m.

Yes, it is a choice.

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ndkaldjen · July 9, 2020, 9:01 p.m. · 1 reply

I would say that perhaps gay men feel freer to pursue gender nonconformity, and even associate it with their sexuality, though it is not a requirement for it. Why do butch lesbians exist? It’s just that some people feel more comfortable expressing gender non conforming expressions in the LGB. It may be annoying to you, but that is how they wish to be and there’s nothing wrong right off the bat with being flamboyant or butch. I will say that portraying gayness as flamboyant behavior 100% of the time in media is definitely toxic tho.

floraris · July 9, 2020, 9:13 p.m.

Buth lesbians are disappearing and today lesbians looks mostly like straight women. For one, I only like feminine women and I'm regularly feminine looking myself.But I fear the butches are being brainwashed to become trans

wathocha · July 9, 2020, 9:03 p.m.

I wouldn’t say that it’s a choice but rather part of one’s personality, which is generally set by an early age. However, some exaggerate or fake it for whatever reason.

floraris · July 9, 2020, 9:11 p.m. · 1 reply

No, it's not. Some gay male are naturally very feminine and some lesbians are naturally very masculine. They can't help it. These are the ones who develops gender disphoria. Today is even worst with all these gender bullshit, that brainwash people in believing not fitting stereotype means being the opposite sex.

VixnSkye` · July 10, 2020, 2:03 a.m.

To some extent, it's a choice. I've met that overly flamboyant type in my life, but it doesn't reflect the majority of gay men I know.

Sure, there is a certain level of flamboyance that comes naturally, and isn't a choice. But that said type from the post simply overacts this. If that's one's cup of tea, be it, I don't care. But it's not a natural way to act.

Tweeders55 · July 9, 2020, 9:13 p.m. · 1 reply

Idk. I do know a lot of straight guys with different degrees of the gay male lisp whatever sound.

fuuuuck_it_all · July 9, 2020, 10:41 p.m. · 1 reply

Yes, that is true. Did you automatically assume they were gay at first?

Tweeders55 · July 10, 2020, 3:52 a.m.

No. But that's because I hung out in the art department.

antiqute · July 9, 2020, 9:43 p.m.

It’s comparable to joining a group. Think “is it a necessity to join the X race group in prison” like no in literal terms it’s not necessary but people are exposed to pressures that make certain groups and their tropes/memes/behaviors one that one will adopt.

Shrekt-Effect · July 9, 2020, 9:59 p.m.

I fucking hate them tbh

throwaway47388338 · July 9, 2020, 11:04 p.m.

I feel as though it’s definitely a sense of exploration, and not being confined by expectations. Ultimately, it’s a choice. No one is born going “YASSSSS QUEEN.” That’s a learned trait. Some gay men I know actively choose to wear clothes to break male gender expectations. One gay man I know is obsessed with painting his fingernails (although he came out as non-binary eventually.) But I do feel as though there’s some correlation with sexuality and personality, although not always. Some men might have been told being gay/feminine was bad at a young age, and therefore is more quiet and reserved as an adult. Some gay men use it as an act of rebellion, dressing in skirts for a “statement.” Hope that makes sense.

Gayosexual Assigned Gay At Birth (AGAB) · July 9, 2020, 11:18 p.m.

Some gay men are just naturally feminine... I remember two of the guys at middle school who people though were gay because they were feminine... meanwhile I was under the radar lol

I think because feminine guys have it a little harder homophobia wise (harder to hide in the closet), the gay wanted more positive representation of feminine guys in the media.... (same with butch lesbians I think) but I guess it's easier to just have a flamboyant stereotype that everyone will read as gay then to have an average guy who could be anything. I also think people just love that flamboyant entertaining type of queen. Like the Queer Eye guys, and Rupauls drag race, Jack from Will & Grace, they are like a big showy thing.

Then when your a gay teen maybe you think you need to act a certain way to be part of the club so you start adding certain affectations that may not be your own. I'm glad your cousin and is boyfriend don't feel like they have to do that. Better for people to be themselves than to think they have to put on a show.

fu4922 · July 9, 2020, 11:31 p.m.

It’s cultural.

youforcoffee · July 9, 2020, 11:39 p.m.

Some of it is trying to belong to a "culture", "group" or "stereotype" for whatever reason, so people tend to force it a bit and make certain things a part of their personality to fit in. A lot of people are just individuals with their own personalities, there are homosexuals that are nothing like the stereotypes and many who are. Some people are also naturally like what you describe regardless of their sexual orientation, what some people might term "feminine" or "butch" or whatever (i don't agree because people can be a mix of many things and it's wrong to stereotype a group or individual even if there could be commonalities).

Being a man or woman actually means fuck all; there are biological differences like men on average being bigger or various other dimorphic traits, whatever but it doesn't effect your personality. For trans people to actually affirm themselves they tend to act and fall into stereotypes because if they just act like themselves how does that make them more or less of a man or woman? Unless they conform to perceived social expectations, gender roles and other various stereotypes? Identity is all about perception, being bi or homosexual is just something you are not an identity; although like i said some people partake in the stereotyped gay "culture".

Pebbleinthestream1` · July 10, 2020, 2:54 a.m.

I don’t think it’s usually a choice.

For some of us I think it’s an outward representation of what is what ever it is that means we are gay in the first place. You see little boys who are very gender non conforming, and quite a few of them will be gay one day. So if it happened before they even know, it’s not a choice. It’s one of the reasons the Christian Right spends time policing how children should play.

Being flamboyant is also hard. No one at school wants to stand out. Having people know your gay up front is not always an advantage.

For many people it’s just who they are.

However, some people play up to it. If you gay and don’t fit into mainstream society, you may feel much more strongly affiliated with gay culture, and conform more to stereotypes. I vaguely felt that pressure when I came out as gay, people expect you to be a certain way (I’m not) and you can be left feeling you don’t fit into the straight world, or the gay world.

Beth-BR` · July 10, 2020, 3:15 a.m.

I can't tell you how many straight girls I've encountered that presented the 'gay' style and gay girls who were just girls, nothing about them screamed 'gay' but some gay girls choose the gayest style and make being gay the only thing about them and people online eat that shit up. Like no, I am just a normal girl who happens to love ladies, I can drop hint there and there but not everybody needs to know how gay I am.

Ice-Kagen` · July 10, 2020, 3:57 a.m.

Well I don't know... I think that for some it's a choice and for some it isn't. But the same could be applied to masculine gay men as well. Some gay men who don't want to fit in the stereotype would do anything to remove all parts of feminity from their behavior. But yes, gay guys who act more feminine on purpose, because they want to look "gayer" exist as well. On the other hand, there are flamboyant straight guys too and naturally masculine gay guys. I'm personally rather masculine and more into guys who are masculine as well. I sometimes feel like masculine gay men who are looking for the same are hated in the gay community, though. Many straight people don't believe me when I come out to them or tell me shit like "You don't look gay". I can accept that from straight people, but when gay people do the same, I really don't understand... When you search "masc gay guy" or "masculine gay guys", nearly all results will videos or topics about how masculine gay men are assholes, have internalized homophobia and can't embrace their part of feminity(especially if they are more into masculine guys as well. I know that some of those Masc4Masc dudes can be very mean towards fem guys, but come on... we're not all like that. I also loathe the term "straight-acting". I'm not acting, I don't have internalized homophobia, I don't refuse to embrace my "feminine side" I'm just being myself. You're not obliged to act in a stereotypical way to be gay, get over it! There's nothing straight-acting about being a male liking other males... It has nothing to do with being masc or fem. I think many people think that way because in modern society, masculinity is viewed as a problematic behavior. And one thing that makes me feel this way is that everyone leaves in peace feminine lesbians who aren't into butch lesbians. There also seems to be some misconceptions that it's easier to date as a masc guy... Maybe, then tell me why I've always been single when nearly all fem guys I know have already had relationships? And guys who prefer fem guys do exist, even masc ones. So, I don't see how we have it easier. Don't get me wrong, though! I think everyone should have the right to act how he/she wants to and to be respected, but don't tell me I'm an asshole and I have internalized homophobia, just because I'm the way I am. Now, I recognize that "gay culture" is a lot about breaking gender-norms. Many gay guys tend to call each other "girl" for example and drag queens are also part of that culture and there are also those gay guys who refer to their ass as "boy pussy", so I do think that some men tend to become more feminine when they start to get more into gay culture.

NeonBadgerMkI · July 10, 2020, 4:07 a.m.

If we are not confusing flamboyancy with effeminate, yes absolutely.

thevoidtalksback · July 10, 2020, 5:37 a.m.

The flamboyant gay man is a stereotype. As with all stereotypes, some members of the gay population will fit the stereotype to a T and some others will not at all. Some others still will be somewhere in the middle.

There are some people who, gay or not, are flamboyant, as a part of their personality. In women, it's considered acceptable, if annoying, while in men it's discouraged. Gay men however, seem to have initially gained wider acceptance through leaning into this stereotype. Most portrayals of men and women already rely on stereotypes, and the gay stereotype was added to the mix - fun and relatable for straight women and harmless and "other, like women" for straight men.

As with any stereotype, the danger is that unfamiliar people expect all members of a stereotyped minority population to be the stereotype. Some gay people fall into that trap too, if all they have in terms of information and representation is TV shows and movies. So they might try to be more flamboyant to feel accepted as gay.

Hopefully things are changing. Increasingly, I've seen portrayals of gay people as more whole people, and that's good.

I think some people rely on one aspect of themselves and center their identity on it. You'll find examples of that in everything, not just gay people - being a "nerd", being a jock, being an intellectual, being a girly girl, being a macho man, being in a relationship, being a sunsign, being an introvert, and so on.

wotsitsncheesypuffs · July 10, 2020, 6:06 a.m.

Tis a weird one. I am as straight acting and passing as they come. I forever hea rI did not know you were gay' when meeting my husband or me talking about him etc. I have never been called out as gay without me providing that information.

Yet at night and the weekends I spend most of the time cross-dressed in the most flamboyant and outrageous costumes and outfits that you could possibly imagine.

I would say that is pretty effeminate of me. But my voice is very deep and very 'manly' and I present 'straight' on the daily.

Takes all sorts.

My personal take is it is a learned thing. I do not think gay voice exists naturally, it is something nurtured by certain gay males.

I have no clue as to why.

monster_peanut · July 10, 2020, 7:55 a.m.

Behaviour is a choice so I'm guessing they're choosing to behave like this. Might be for attention, might be how they are and they choose to not tone it down in public.

LachlanMaranta` · July 10, 2020, 10:05 a.m.

It's the same as an accent, it just really depends on the kind of people you hang around with.

(comment deleted or removed) · 1 reply
QuantumKittydynamics` · July 10, 2020, 11:53 a.m.

This is fantastic. I'm an American living with a Kiwi who watches a ton of British shows, and to me everything British just sounds so...posh. Old-timey aristocratic. Like, just the word "banana" will have me in stitches, "Oh look, a bah-naaahh-naahhh!", like Jane from Disney's Tarzan. So somehow it just tickles my soul to know that in return, we sound super-gay. That's fair.