What are examples of sex-based rights?

Politics & Controversial Submitted July 7, 2020, 11:21 a.m. by Annenbrook

I've been reading a few articles on gender-scepticism to try and see the other side on the subject. Just a little heads up I'm a cis lesbian and to me gender is real but I would like to understand both sides a little better to see where there might be common ground. I think the topic definitely relates to being lesbian because to me it is a matter of broadening or limiting the term but if this post is still considered a violation of community rules about posts solely pertaining to lesbian matters I understand. If you have subs to point me to that might be a better place to post my question I would be very grateful.

So here goes. One argument that I've seen very often is that acknowledging gender in addition to sex is that said acknowledgement would - as far as I've understood- erase sex altogether and thus 'sex-based' rights, especially for women. A very pervasive fear seems (to me) to be that in order to infringe on those rights cis men (as far as I understand those making this argument sometimes claim that this isn't about trans people but cis men exclusively sometimes it seems to be about both) could seek to transition in order to take these exclusive rights away from women. So I've wondered what these rights might be to understand where this might take effect. I understand to some degree where the fear of cis guys trying to take away our rights comes from but I've so far not been able to see where trans women would be culpable in this. And to understand this I think being able to name and identify those rights would help a lot.

20 comments recovered from the Pushshift database.
StrictlyDykely · July 7, 2020, 11:39 a.m. · 1 reply

It looks like you’ve asked this a lot, in different subs. I’m sure the more political ones will have better information for you. We are just lesbians who want to talk to each other.

Annenbrook · July 7, 2020, 11:43 a.m. · 2 replies

Yeah, I picked three which I thought might have different viewpoints on it.

I'm frequently in two of them but I also wanted to leave my bubble a bit to maybe get a new perspective. :)

StrictlyDykely · July 7, 2020, 11:50 a.m. · 1 reply

Well, I would direct you to radfem but they are banned, gender critical is banned. The problem with these questions is that the information is easily available with a google search, Twitter, etc, and pretty much anything a sub like True Lesbians says, even about sex-based protections for women and girls, is considered hate speech. Reddit is not interested in allowing room for perspectives. Anything we say on the subject will be reported.

Annenbrook · July 7, 2020, 11:57 a.m. · 1 reply

Google was my first go-to but I only found articles that defended sex-based rights but never found examples.

StrictlyDykely · July 7, 2020, 1:37 p.m. · 1 reply

I think there is a lot of focus on “trans women v.s. women,” dialogues, but the issue with the law is much bigger and more complex than to write off as transphobia. Cathy Brennan has some videos where she talks about gender identity and the law on YouTube. Maybe give them a watch. She’s good at explaining law because she’s an actual lawyer who has been concerned about potential impacts of specific changes to law for a long time. Don’t let opinions on her stop you from investigating legal implications of things, if you are truly wanting to understand the different facets of this issue.

Annenbrook · July 7, 2020, 2:12 p.m.

Yes, that's why I posted! I'd like to learn about the grey areas.I will check her out thanks!

StrictlyDykely · July 7, 2020, 11:52 a.m.

And you’re not wrong to ask questions on every side of every argument. That is a good quality. It’s important. I wish we could be of more assistance to you, but some perspectives are not valued.

bastetkat · July 7, 2020, 11:42 a.m. · 1 reply

First, what is “cis”?

Annenbrook · July 7, 2020, 11:45 a.m. · 1 reply

When sex and gender identity align. In my case I was assigned female at birth and also identify as female.

bastetkat · July 7, 2020, 11:48 a.m. · 1 reply

I was born female (btw sex is observed not assigned), yes. But what does it mean to “identify” as female? Am I supposed to feel like a woman? What is it exactly?

Annenbrook · July 7, 2020, 12:16 p.m. · 1 reply

Hmm, I guess it depends on whether you believe in gender or not. Afab and amab, "assigned female (or male) at birth" are rather commonly used terms. To me using assigned makes sense when you think that sex, the observable part, and gender don't automatically have to align. Like you're being assigned a role or label or in this case idenrity that you don't necessarily agree with. Same would go for people who are inter, I guess. As for what it feels like to be trans I'm afraid I can't speak for trans people because I haven't experienced it but there are great subs where people are always willing to explain if you have questions. :)

bastetkat · July 7, 2020, 12:30 p.m. · 1 reply

Hm but I was asking how I know if I “identify” as female.

Like you’re being assigned a role or label or in this case identity that you don’t necessarily agree with.

So, what is there to agree or disagree? How do I truly know if I agree with being female?

Annenbrook · July 7, 2020, 2:09 p.m. · 1 reply

If you have doubts about your own gender identity I'm afraid I am no good source for giving you examples of how it feels. But like I said try the subs. I'm sure people will gladly help you out.

Continue reading
casuallycruelhonesty · July 7, 2020, 12:05 p.m.

Sex-based rights are:

Bathrooms: women who worked in male dominated professions often had to hold their pee or go to different floors, because their were only men’s bathrooms (ie when I was in medical school our old buildings had to convert some male restrooms because there literally weren’t any female restrooms)

Sports: females weren’t give access to play sports, because their bodies weren’t as fast (ie they could never make it to the olympics)

Prisons: the right not to be incarcerated with people that are 5 times more likely to rape you

Pay: the right to be paid the same for the same work

Scholarships: scholarships in STEM to make space for biological females

Sexual harassment: the right to work without people harassing you for the sex organs you have

Sexuality: the right to have relations with either sex

These are just some of them. No one is denying that trans people should have rights, but just that they shouldn’t infringe on sex-based rights and not convert sex to gender in these definitions

RGB’s on the basis of sex lawsuits were literally about biological females not about people who wore dresses

LemortjoyeuxThat cat lady · July 7, 2020, 12:07 p.m.

Sorry but this post has to be removed because it lacks lesbian focus. This would've been a great question for gender critical but we don't want to become a ban evasion sub so moderation needs to be more strict.

bastetkat · July 7, 2020, 2:59 p.m. · 1 reply

And I don't think you worry this much about not looking and feeling female enough if you're actually identifying as a guy but unaware of it.

Does identifying as a guy means you "look/feel" male? I still don't quite understand this whole "feel" female thing, because to me it just sounds like it's based on stereotypes. Sorry for asking so many questions, but I'm trying to understand the other perspective.

Edit: Woops, I meant to reply to your message.

Annenbrook · July 7, 2020, 3:22 p.m. · 1 reply

Yeah stereotypes and normativity definitely play a role in my case (I have to stress this is my experience with gender, being trans is something I can't comment on). I don't really feel male in a sense where I know I'm not male and I don't want to be seen as one or where I don't like it when some of my traits and characteristics are referred to as "what women do or are". I think it can be a very individual thing. So I guess I myself just don't tick my own boxes. In this case it's more about not feeling female enough but wanting to feel more female and I think - to me at least- this is mostly to do with my body which just feels neither very male nor female. And the existence of the typical private parts below my waste somehow don't alleviate that feeling. 😅i

bastetkat · July 7, 2020, 3:55 p.m.

my body which just feels neither very male nor female.

See, what I don't understand is that you believe your body needs to "feel" male or female. If you're born female, you're body is just female. But that does mean you must perfectly fit the society's standards of what a woman is supposed to look and act like. Stereotypes are a social contruct, they aren't innate. All this "feel female/male" thing is made up, it's based on a social contruct. My body is female, but I can be as masculine as I want and that won't change my biological sex. I can also be as feminine as I want, but that won't make me a "true" female.

I have another question. You refer to yourself as "cis" based on your personal experiences with gender. If it's something so unique to you, how can we call other people "cis"? Based on what? For example, I'm just a woman. But there are people who insist I need to call myself "cis". They say that it's just a descriptor, but I never once agreed with myself that "I identify as a woman". I'm a woman simply because I was born biologically female, there's really nothing for me to "align" with or "identify" as. Unless, this is all just about stereotypes, then majority of women would be a different gender because we don't perfectly fit the stereotype.